IAmNotIronMaiden Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) How to save competitive (1v1 high-ranked Supremacy) AoM A topic so hot you literally get: Table of Contents Post #1 Definitions i Common definitions ii Critical definitions How to save competitive AoM 1 Remove AoT 1.0 Remove everything of AoT Free Myth Units Shooting Docks High-hunt maps Titans Atlanteans AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue 2TC's 1.1 Ending Note #1 - The macro-meta 2 Tweaks 2.0 God Powers tweaking Introduction 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) 2.0c Idea 3: No changes 2.1 Favor tweaking 2.2 Free units tweaking 2.3 Water tweaking 2.4 Wall tweaking 2.5 Telegraphing tweaking 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking 3 DLC's 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Ending Note #2 FAQ #1 Edit History Sources Post #2 ... Definitions i Common definitions Spoiler Title definitions AoM: Age of Mythology Vanilla: Original game (Age of Mythology, not The Titans expansion pack) AoT: Age of Mythology: The Titans (expansion pack) TT: The Titans (expansion pack) AoMEE: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition (The Titans expansion pack included) EE: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition (The Titans expansion pack included) TotD: Tale of the Dragon (expansion pack) AoE2: Age of Empires II SC2: StarCraft II Common definitions 2TC: The feature to contruct Town Centers on Settlements in the second Age (AoT) instead of the third (Vanilla) AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue: The feature to repeatedly create the selected units from a building BO: Build Order (a list (outside the game) of units to queue to achieve a particular goal) Boom: To aggressively pursue economic progression Casual: Those who chronically play any of the following: Team games Unranked games (any level) Mid-to-low ranked 1v1 Supremacy games Mods Single-Player Cheese: The solid mass of fermented milk Gaming: A distasteful tactic/strategy, like the odor of certain cheeses, bordering unsportsmanlike conduct in that the player on the receiving end cannot properly respond to them within their logistics comfort-zone Gaming: A tactic/strategy disapproved by an opponent, typically used in the early game DLC: Downloadable Content (or Expansion Packs) Entropy: "Randomness" Fog of War: The map blackness/grayness unscouted/scouted by the Player GP: God Power HP: Hitpoints/health Kite: To purposefully retreat, baiting the opponent's units into following Lame: Crippled Gaming (verb): To over-rely on a game-mechanic/strategy/tactic, like a crutch, making for... Gaming (adjective): ... boring/uninteresting/dull (gameplay/matches), like a stationary cripple Gaming: A tactic/strategy disapproved by an opponent, typically used in the late game LOS: Line of sight (area of vision of a unit/building) Main: The player's best/original/favorite Major God MOBA: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (a game genre) MU: Myth Unit OP: Overpowered Redzoning: The inability to build Walls around a particular Resource as indicated by the red shade on the Wall-icon cursor RNG: Random-number-generated RTS: Real-Time Strategy (a game genre) Rush: To attack early and quickly, typically untelegraphed, especially in the early game (and without researching Hunting Dogs (original/early definition)) Smurf: A player playing under an alias TC: Town Center Vanilla: Original game (Age of Mythology, not The Titans expansion pack) ii Critical definitions APM: Actions (keypresses, mouse clicks) per minute (often misused as "micro-management") Micro-: "The smaller" (often misused as "micro-management") Macro-: "The bigger" (often misused as "macro-management") Micro-management: Gaming: How one manages their units or buildings (often misused as "APM") Macro-management: Gaming: How one maintains their map-control/military/economy/production/upgrades/repairs/etc. (often misused as "economy management") Meta: Gaming: The tactics/strategies most effective at winning the game - can be separated into: Micro-meta: The tangible meta that can be used in a game (often misinterpreted as "micro-management meta") "Against Heimdall, it's better to Sphinx/Axe instead of Fast Heroic or 2TC..." "3v3? You two rush Blue while I (middle) Fast Heroic..." Macro-meta: The general conclusion based from the context of the overall micro-meta (often misinterpreted as "macro-management meta") "Loki beats Gaia..." "There is only one way to play this game..." 1 Remove AoT 1.0 Remove everything of AoT Free Myth Units Shooting Docks High-hunt maps Titans Atlanteans AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue 2TC's 1.1 Ending Note #1 - The macro-meta Spoiler 1.0 Remove everything of AoT When people use the term, "Age of Mythology", they are not referring to Age of Mythology, but, its expansion pack. The new features introduced in the expansion pack forever devastated the core gameplay of AoM by: Automating the game Locking the macro-meta Rewarding unprepared/casual/lazy/auto-pilot/boomy playstyles Downplaying scouting While reading, the reader should consider: Quote Was AoT truly an expansion pack? How did the features released in AoT differ from AoE's expansion packs? To who and what playstyle (and therefore "Civilizations" (tech-trees)) were the features introduced in AoT catered towards? What is a macro-meta? (From Post #2 - Section Responses). (And regarding why Ensemble Studios included these features, see Post #2 - Section FAQ #2 - "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?"). Free Myth Units: Punish players with cheese. Spoiler Punish players who do not have access to a "water" Minor God on Water Maps. Reward players for simply Advancing, with: Undeserved and inflated defense/offense: Fast MU's that: Raid enemy hunt or Gold Mines Scout the entire map for free Slow or ranged MU's that functions as mobile towers Lock the macro-meta - players have more diversity in units and tactics, but not strategies. What free MU's does: It places an undeserved variable into (early) phases of match development, denying/enabling strategies, forever locking the macro-meta. Consider: Spoiler Consider: How much of the map would have been scouted, taken, or defended without free MU's? How much does a Myth Unit cost? How long would it take for Villagers to gather those resources? How many of those resources could be used to build military units/buildings? How many Hoplites are equal to an MU? And its Special attack? An egregious example being Hathor, spawning both a flying Transport (15-unit carry) and a ranged unit that could kill a villager in two shots! What should have amounted to a grand total of 350 Gold and 30 Favor and 34 seconds of training time was instead a blank check. Two free Myth Units! No wonder certain playstyles and philosophies thrive. "I disagree". Instead of 1, why not two - no - 5 free Centaurs? Strategies. Shooting Docks (garrisoned Docks can fire arrows) Against a lone or a few arrow ships, defenders can: Protect their Dock HP. Queue a military ship at their convenience. So, unless the aggressor commits to investing in a larger fleet, Shooting Docks punish: Land: Early, aggressive strategies (locking the macro-meta to a "Water or land" rock-paper-scissors-guessing game) by suppressing: Water feinting (to mislead the opponent into overproducing military ships instead of military land units) Ship-land combo: Military land units attack the Dock. Arrow ships close in onto the Dock: To deny the opponent of their last fishing pool (protected by Shooting Docks). To defend the player's land military units from enemy land units. Water: Early aggression Small raids (any time) And by the time the Boomer/Defender Advances to Classical Age, they should have an extra Villager or 2, thereby solidifying Water dominance from their extra lumber production. Whatever happened to "first come, first served"? The game basically plays by itself: You snooze, They lose! High-hunt maps* punish the defender who was denied of hunt (e.g.: Norse aggression, Shifting Sands onto hunters, Athena Rush). The winner of map-control have "unlimited" hunt - no need to gather herdables/berries or chop Wood for Farms! (Now, apply this to double TC's). By this point, the game already plays by itself; the aggressor can either: Amass "infinite" hunt-based military to steamroll. Advance to the next Age quicker with a free God Power (and free MU's and 2TC's) to dominate (e.g.: Flaming Weapons on Migdols, Ancestors, Underworld). Consider: Spoiler How many Farms are equivalent to a pack of Deer? How much longer would it take for Villagers to Farm them? How many Wood is required to build those Farms? How long would it take Villagers to gather the Wood? How many melee military units would be created if half of the Villagers switched to cutting Wood? How would the player's map-control consequently fare? * Assuming both players were of equal skill. Titans* punish late-game players by enabling the undeserving player to soft-reset the winning player's progress through trashing their bases and efforts they've put into establishing map control. So, instead of: Strategically placing towers on the map Establishing a decent trade route Opting for a Wonder They get a get-out-of-jail-free card. * Assuming both players were of equal skill. Atlanteans: Atlantean players have more than "twice" the amount of time than Vanilla civilizations to focus on their micro-management, as their Citizens: Are equal to ~2.3 Villagers. Do not need drop-off/storage sites. On Water Maps: They have access to offensive Water MU's in Classical Age. Atlanteans can comfortably Advance to 4:30 (or earlier). (Shooting Docks are of little issue to them when most civilizations are still struggling to Advance to 4:30 - 5:00). Their Arrow Ships are extremely fast (7.25 speed), allowing them to kite from arrows and perform unprecedented guerilla attacks. Their Hammer Ships have range. Myth Unit philosophy: Regarding Heka Gigantes: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios made Heroes immune to MU active Special-attacks, unlike Human units. Regarding Carnivora, Nereid, Servant: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive Water MU's in Heroic Age, not Classical Age. Regarding Stymphalian Birds: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive flying MU's in Mythic Age, not Heroic Age. Turmas: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had raiding (fast) ranged-units in Heroic Age, not Classical Age. They are quite literally Egyptian Chariot Archers (~90 HP and 5.00 speed) in Classical Age and deal bonus damage to counter-infantry and counter-archers! More than one free GP granted per Age: There was a reason why Ensembl - Age of Free Insurance™! AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue The AQ argument can be summarized with a simple question: What is "macro-meta"? Introduction Regarding Age of games... If you are still thinking: Cluster 1 "Quality-of-life" "Repetition" "APM" "Spamming/mashing" "Hotkeys" "'Strategy'" Cluster 2 ("It's about") "Competition" "Skill(-ceiling/-expression)" "Elitism"/"'Git gud'" "Esports" "Gatekeeping" You have completely missed the point. Source: 3. On prioritization. Quote Too often are Players using their past experience with (or interpretation of) Blizzard's RTS's to redefine this game and especially the RTS genre. Source: 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention. Words to focus on instead: Prioritization Attention Design Standardization Table of contents: 1. Bullet points 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention 3. On prioritization 4. Thesis 5. AQ dump 1. Bullet points Standardized* unit-production causes: Standardized* attack/Advance/Build-Order timings causes: Standardized* strategies/tactics causes: Standardized* metas causes: Standardized* maps** Standardized* balance™** - game-redesign mods** (Post #2 - "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future) The game to play by itself; there is only one way to play the game.* ** Asymmetrical design is the enemy of standardization*. And thereby: Lowering match entropy.* Lowering windows of opportunity to exploit a Player's inattention.*** Lowering in-game (logical) choices for Players to invest their attention into.*** Lowering prioritization of decisions.*** (The spirit of RTS). AQ locks the macro-meta. "I disagree". Spoiler * "I disagree. No match is ever the same. Where is this 'standardization'? And what are Random Maps?" "Where is this 'standardization'?" If Villagers/Hoplites can be created every 14 seconds, that is standardization of unit-production. Therefore, the Player can rely on that constant to build upon the meta via attack/Advance timings, standardizing strategies/tactics. Eventually, the "meta" (macro-meta) is perfected/"solved"... "And what are Random Maps?" ... therefore, balancers™ must chip away at the asymmetry of Random Maps* and civilization design* in order to keep the "metas" (micro-metas) "fresh" - balanced™ - standardized - for "fair play" (boomy lameplay)... ... because: Any minor disadvantage resulting from map asymmetry or "imbalances" will throw off the trajectory of the disadvantaged Player on an already-level playing-field co-created by AQ (and 2TC's - the ironies). * Voobly and AoMEE. "No match is ever the same". True for the micro-meta, but not for the macro-meta. Please read Section Definitions - ii Critical definitions. *** "I disagree. There are plenty of opportunities* - if not, even more* - to exploit Player attention with AQ, because Players don't need to waste time going back-and-forth with unit-production". * Context-less theory. If a Player forgets to queue units during an intense battle, is that not an opportunity to exploit them then and after? If AQ manages all of those decisions for the Player, how many (logical) choices are there left to make? What is "the butterfly effect"? ... "With AQ, lower-APM players can outsmart faster players; removing it will dumb down the game". Reality: AQ dumbs down the game by reducing prioritization between "micro" and "macro" management, inflating Player APM. "But I literally play with almost no APM". Then you were playing against Players not as familiarized with the macro-meta as you were. "AQ allows me to strategize more; I don't need to press 'V' every 14 seconds". Reality: AQ allows players more time to execute tactics. (Of the "same" strategies). "AQ does not affect pro players". Reality: Pro players are not immune to distractions, especially when playing against others of similar caliber. (Author's note: I sometimes wonder: do they even play the game when they say these things?) Consider: Were the game developers who created your beloved games/franchises so programically inept they could not even write a simple loop command? ... 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention Discussion: Quality-of-life, smart features ("modernization"), user interface/input. "And how is the automation from auto-queue any different from Villager auto-gathering or military auto-attacking?" It is possible to create a fun (and competitive) RTS without unit auto-gathering/auto-attacking. One will just need to: Lower the screen-size, cut down the amount of units, increase rates, etc. (features quite familiar to console/mobile RTS). Because: There is only so much one can do in their attention, in tandem with their bodily limitations and hardware apparatuses. For example: StarCraft 2 failed to capture the charm of its predecessor by implementing "quality of life" features for a more "modern" experience, despite StarCraft 1's "outdated" core gameplay was designed around its screen size and unit stats (speed, attack, gathering rates, etc.). Apr 22, 2024 - New game studios are making RTS for casuals - Grubby David Kim 43:47 Multi-building selection, unlimited unit selection... made that macro[-management] part a lot easier in StarCraft 2. So, in order to combat that... we brought in... macro[-management] mechanics. For the Terran, you have to constantly, like, drop these Mules on the.... Grubby 44:06 By providing new UI and UX and quality-of-life improvements... multiple unit-selection.... 44:25 By removing the part of the game that they thought [was] tedious and difficult and daunting, they ended up with a shallower experience that they then tried to artificially make complicated again. 44:45 This is actually happening in a lot of the new RTS games... you don't have workers walk around... they just stay put and... auto-produce. So the question... is it better when it's automated? 45:14 What makes [a] game fun? Feb 10, 2017 - The Gamer Motivation Profile: Model and Findings - Nick Yee, GDC 20:04 [Dilemma of choices design] If I make a game... that's incredibly strategically-complex, there's a lot of information to process through - I have to give you the time to make those decisions. In fact, I have to let you be able to pause the game, otherwise, you wouldn't be able to make those decisions in time and it becomes incredibly frustrating to play the game. [Dilemma of pacing design] On the other hand, the faster and more fast-paced a game is, the game is more based on reactions. There's strategy, but not the kind of strategy where I'm giving you 30 pieces of information and asking you to make a complex decision. [Dilemma of attention design] So, there's kind of a trade-off... between the amount of cognitive resources I can take.... I can either take them from you, by strategic complexity or reaction time, but not both, because, it wouldn't be fun. 20:53 But, you know, games that are right near that edge or slightly beyond that edge may be really good as Esports candidates... because... there's that level of challenge that a lot of people can't master, but people [still] get the game [even though] they know they themselves cannot play well. "See? AQ allows Players more time to make decisions, increasing strategic gameplay". Spoiler Quote "With AQ, lower-APM players can outsmart faster players; removing it will dumb down the game". Reality: AQ dumbs down the game by reducing prioritization between "micro" and "macro" management, inflating Player APM. "But I literally play with almost no APM". Then you were playing against Players not as familiarized with the macro-meta as you were.s "AQ allows me to strategize more; I don't need to spam 'H' and 'V' every 14 seconds". Reality: AQ allows players more time to execute tactics. (Of the "same" strategies). Source: 1. Bullet points. Quote Strategy (military), like BO crafting, is generally done prior to the match. It is simply preparation. That is why recorded games exist, so Players can review their matches and avoid making the same mistakes by adjusting their strategies next time. If "strategy" (military) could be described as long-term, abstract, planning, and "tactics" (military) as short-term, concrete, performing, then "Real-Time Tactics" is a more suitable title for the genre of RTS. Source: 5. AQ dump. Quote But with AQ, it is almost guaranteed the Player can make and execute the optimal decision from their surplus time and attention. Especially in a small sandbox (map size, unit stats/prices (Section Ending Note #2))! That is why Players say.... Souce: 3. On prioritization. Instead of using wordplay to justify game-breaking mechanics, defenders of AQ need to understand: Age of Mythology was already designed around a particular attention-set, not context-less theories. Too often are Players using their past experience with (or interpretation of) Blizzard's RTS's* to redefine this game and especially the RTS genre. * Games of hyper-reaction, muscle-memory, and perfectionism due to: Symmetrical maps, revealed maps, and a simplified economy. TheAchronic (June 18, 2024) - https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/remove-auto-queue-in-the-remaster/249320/163 For every quality-of-life feature implemented is another variable for Players to invest their attention into lost. ... Spoiler Ok_Blacksmith_3192 (February 15, 2024) - https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/1aqrapq/comment/kqkm2c0/ TheAchronic (June 15, 2024) - https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/remove-auto-queue-in-the-remaster/249320/127 Quote RTS games are not City-builder Simulators nor real life. Source: Post #2 - "Where is the 'strategy' of RTS in keypressing every X seconds?" Nov 16, 2023 - Real-Time Strategy is incredible and you should play it - CloudCuckooCountry Spoiler 19:30 You might notice there's a lot of waiting for things in Real-Time Strategy.... 19:40 [Because] you have to juggle all of these simple tasks at the same time; these games aren't simply "build your base, then recruit your army, then start fighting each other". 20:02 This is why there's so much waiting in between you giving an order and the thing you wanted happening; the game isn't slow to waste your time - the game is slow to give you the breathing room to split your attention. You're not actually supposed to be staring at your building going up or watching your units slowly pop out of a building one-at-a-time - that's about as fun as watching paint dry. 21:43 The best analogy for playing an RTS skillfully is juggling. 22:07 After a ball is thrown, it will remain airborne for a short time-window, which gives the juggler the opportunity to catch and throw the other balls. 22:19 Real-Time-Strategy is very similar - you have several different tasks that require your attention. Once you get one task going, there's a short time-window before you have to pay attention to it again, and that lets you give your attention to another task. 1:10:06 When RTS is at its best, it becomes this elaborate, free-form dance between you and your opponent, where the value of your options, the structure and pace of a match, and even the specific objectives you're both fighting over - are completely dynamic and determined by the both of you, organically. Spoiler https://twitter.com/CloudCuckooCoun/status/1728196469474361679 ... 3. On prioritization Spoiler Part 1/4 - Basics Spoiler Image definitions: Attention is the Player's awareness of their focus. It is represented in the images as a yellow circle. Focus is the intensity of the Player's applied control. If it was shown in the images, it would be represented in darker/lighter shades of control. Control is the Player's surface area of "potential energy". If it was shown in the images, it may cover the entire image. In Age of Mythology, the Player's attention would be flying all over the map. It is represented in yellow. But, fortunately/unfortunately for Players, attention is not always fixed as it can be affected by a variety of factors: Unhappy day at work Itch Blood sugar Caffeine Morale Temperament Also, the size of a Player's attention is relative to the amount of decisions they make. I.e.: The more time a Player invests into multiple tasks, the smaller their attention could be. In Age of Mythology, there are many variables for the Player to invest their attention into. This is represented in orange. (Units are produced from buildings in intervals). Part 2/4 - Inefficiency Spoiler But since Players have finite resources, they generally could only afford one unit per building. And, if they want more of those units, Players must remember to call or revisit their buildings at those intervals. Notice this costs the Player's attention. This is represented in red as used time. Macro-managing in a RTS game is like driving through a street with many cars and stoplights: Spoiler Cars must decelerate before red lights. Cars must wait during red lights. Cars must accelerate at green lights. The constant acceleration/deceleration causes a domino-effect of delay, resulting in traffic. Waiting in traffic wastes time and gasoline. Translated into AoM: Players must "abandon" micro-managing their current task every time they create units. Their "abandoned" tasks are vulnerable to an opponent's attention. Players must immediately return to micro-managing their "abandoned" task and re-organize the situation. Especially in a time-pressed situation, routine unit-production may cause decision-execution to lag behind. Constant back-and-forth interruptions between tasks shrink Player attention and draw upon their "mental energy". However: The Player can always choose not to produce units in favor of micro-managing their current situation. Drivers can always choose not to stop at a red light so to arrive at their destination quicker. But, as a consequence: The Driver's car/life may be imperiled. The Player's economy/military production may suffer. Part 3/4 - Solution Spoiler The Titans ("AoT" - AoM's expansion pack), introduced a new feature which auto-produces units: Autoqueue (AQ). Notice the increase of player-attention from the extra time allowed by AQ. With this quality-of-life feature, playing AoT games is like driving through streets with infinite green lights: Spoiler No red lights No traffic Quicker arrival to their destination Translated into AoM: Players do not need to call or revisit their buildings at every interval(s). Player attention is not congested with interruptions. Players can accomplish their tasks faster. And: The Player's economy/military production is streamlined. The Driver's car/life is safe from opposing traffic. Players, then, are able to execute new tactics and explore different strategies at a rate than they never could have before with AQ. And, if the Player's tactics/strategies are the best for its time/league/playerbase, it is a meta. Therefore, AQ is good for the meta: It accelerates the discovery of new metas. Players can easily reproduce and refine on existing metas. Part 4/4 - Legacy AoT Players may liken games without AQ to this video: The analogy: Staying on the treadmill: Unit-production. Doing the tasks: Unit micro-managing. The irony of the analogy: The treadmill runs at a constant. But AoM Players are not locked by the "treadmill" - since their games are not "standardized", they define the speed, not the "belt". In other words, if they want more time, they either "make" more or "steal" it from their opponents. (Respectively: Adaptation/prioritization and aggression/"creativity"). Their games do not run at a constant. Also, a hypothetical look into an AoM Player's mindset: "Why doesn't Daniel iron over the controls? Toss the ironing board away (or at the other runner)". "If Daniel gets injured while changing the lightbulb, there's always another Daniel". "Sitting on a treadmill? Turn the chair over sideways". This is adaptation. And finally, the elephant in the room: Had Daniel simply gotten off the treadmill, he could have efficiently completed his tasks. This is prioritization. AoM Players are free. But AoT Players are not free; they are like indentured servants working in sweatshops. Because they do not use the treadmill ("unit-production") - because of their extra time - and because Boss AQ has standardized all timings for the workforce: They are competing against the clock, not against other Players, but against a constant. Spoiler So, instead of engaging in the intricacies of RTS: (Information) Feinting, sabotage, subterfuge (of Player attention)... ... AoT Players must cram as many tasks between production cycles because AQ demands more APM. So much for "casual" play. It is therefore not "strategies" Players under AQ are executing, but tactics. So much for touted "strategies". Who is the Boss of your games: You or AQ? Spoiler "Our Core Values at Meta™ Sewing Ltd. include: Innovation, Uniqueness, Creativity..." Look at her strategies. Can you see them? Look closer... But, did you know you could already play without AQ? Consider this situation: You woke up this morning, late for your job interview - should you: Catch the bus or filter coffee? Now, assume the same situation, but this time, with: Toothbrushes, clothes, dishes.... The goal was always the same: To not miss the bus. But, some Players just want it all. They woke up late. They want their coffee. They want to scroll through their phones. They do not want to prioritize the essentials. They do not want to sacrifice choices. AoT Players playing without AQ often find themselves frustrated (and tired, like sprinting in a marathon, paying little heed to the conservation or balancing of "energy" (Part 1/4 - Basics)). Because they are attempting to swallow an elephant. "To lift [a strand of] hair is no sign of great strength; to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight; to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear." - Sun Tzu The Art of War It is one thing to know optimal timings ("strategy"), but it is another to adaptively execute the knowing in a time-pressured situation. That is why players PRIORITIZE. (Or else, "steal" attention from their opponents). Because you can't have it all. And that's the beauty of it: Everything is a choice. Add in more units and buildings, and do you see how complex this can get? By the time the Player gets into the late-game, their attention should be smaller. And even more if they don't use control-groups! But, with AQ, it is almost guaranteed the Player can make and execute the optimal decision from their surplus time and attention. Especially in a small sandbox (map size, unit stats/prices (Section Ending Note #2))! That is why Players say: "There is only one way to play the game". "AQ dumbs down the game". "The game plays by itself". This is the macro-meta (not "macro-management"). It is the "greater/larger meta". Larger image (updated 2024/5/31): https://meta-plays.com/uploads/monthly_2024_05/macro-meta.png.01dabd8d918ecc78887f06f48fef6420.png AQ locks the macro-meta. If you are still thinking: Cluster 1 "Quality-of-life" "Repetition" "APM" "Spamming/mashing" "Hotkeys" "'Strategy'" Cluster 2 ("It's about") "Competition" "Skill(-ceiling/-expression)" "Elitism"/"'Git gud'" "Esports" "Gatekeeping" You have completely missed the point.* * Unless, you were referring to a dumbed-down game (of perfectionism) with a simplified economy and revealed and/or symmetrical maps, like: Blizzard's RTS's, [insert no-name RTS], AoT/AoMEE (Post #2 - Section FAQ #2 - "Why don't you go back to AoE2 or SC2?"). The fight against AQ was always about the preservation of the Players' true "light" (their "unscripted" attention). It is a celebration of the macro-meta, by which the Players themselves define. Age of Mythology is among the few games in the world that allows for such expression of Player decision-making. The black map is the canvas and we are its artists. ... 4. Thesis Spoiler AQ does allow the player to micro-manage more. It is good for the micro-meta (please read Section Definitions' ii Critical Definitions). However, many players fail to realize that it establishes and locks the macro-meta (please read Section Definitions' ii Critical Definitions). It simply streamlines production, thereby removing the burden of prioritization, creating the illusion that the match was won by sheer skill and "strategy", when in reality, it only serves to inflate both players' APM to executing the same macro-meta gameplay of near-perfect logistical management, turning AoT akin to a 20-minute "repetitive testing simulator" instead of a RTS game. Real-Time Strategy is a game genre in which players execute multiple real-time decisions in response to their opponents' moves across a large map, all the while restricted by their screen size and mouse/keyboard input; it is a game of immediate wits, the "'Strategy'" in RTS. Having the insight to prioritize on the available options does not equate to tedious meticulousness, a flawed argument disgruntled Casuals commonly use, "If you remove AQ, you must also remove all hotkeys". AQ basically masks "low intelligence" and steals the glory from worthy players by robbing them of the opportunity to fully utilize and show off their skill (APM, attentiveness, prioritization, intuition) and simultaneously robbing viewers of an interesting game because nearly all of AoT's "meta" (macro-meta) is a byproduct of AQ'ing from 2TC's. AQ does not belong in PC RTS and is better suited as a quality-of-life improvement for platforms with even less input or screen size, such as the console or smartphone. (Sub-section: 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention). ... 5. AQ dump Spoiler (Single image (updated): https://meta-plays.com/uploads/monthly_2024_07/fr3.thumb.jpg.01720414b875e0d0c4eaf7b74cdf8acd.jpg) ... AQ is bad for the macro-meta; it excessively rewards the following...: The short-term (casual/social/weekend/holiday matches) Unprepared playstyles (2TC) Boomy gameplay ... and punishes their inverses. ... Hotkeys are simply placeholders of thoughts/ideas which RTS Players execute in their game of "debate". Prioritization (Casuals' definition: Repetitiveness) is akin to knowing when to "argue", choosing the best hotkeys to form decisions/"sentences" with their limited "breath"/time. ... Strategy (military), like BO crafting, is generally done prior to the match. It is simply preparation. That is why recorded games exist, so Players can review their matches and avoid making the same mistakes by adjusting their strategies next time. If "strategy" (military) could be described as long-term, abstract, planning, and "tactics" (military) as short-term, concrete, performing, then "Real-Time Tactics" is a more suitable title for the genre of RTS. ... (Game: Five Nights at Freddy's). Spoiler Consider the indie horror game: Five Nights at Freddy's. The Player assumes the role of a midnight technician in a rundown children's party building and must survive the night from Animatronics that seemed to have gained sentience - but not through digital means. The Player's available controls: Closing either doors (to barricade themself from Animatronics) Flashing lights in either hallways (to soft-reset nearby Animatronics) Monitoring each camera, full-screen (to know the Animatronics' whereabouts) Winding the Music Box Wearing a Fazbear Entertainment™ mask (to masquerade as an Animatronic) But, each action is not without consequence: The doors, lights, and laptop use power (which the Player has a limited supply of) The Player can only monitor one room at a time (including their room) Winding the Music Box occupies Player time Wearing the mask occupies Player time But: What if a FNAF game has all the cameras on one screen, equipped with motion-detecting sensors? Now, all the Player has to do left is to react appropriately to each type of Animatronic: Playing an RTS with AQ is similar to playing FNAF without jumpscares. ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wME43TfZiFA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjIpkNobA0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpVVAkQT77U ... 2TC's (Town Centers can be built in the second/Classical Age): Ensemble Studios designed AoM matches to be shorter and aggressive than AoE2's.* 2TC's redefines this by allowing a Third Age feature to be available in the Second Age. This turned AoM into AoE2 - a game of boomy longplay with players sitting in "the corner" of the map. This downplays an entire phase of the game: Classical Age scouting and fighting.* ** *** Players now play the late-game earlier. (Not designed for the sandbox* or one of AoM's core gameplay**). This allowed for civilizations whose tech-trees were designed to excel in the Third Age to excel in the Second Age.** This made Random Maps: "Smaller" *** Balanced™/standardized™ *** * Section Ending Note #2 ** Post #2 - How did the expansion packs harm Norse *** Post #2 - On Random Maps A common (Casual) misconception: "You can only choose one: Classical Age fighting or 2TC's." Other than a few exceptions, what is undeniable: The majority of matches result in 2TC's. ... A confused boy. The macro-meta: AQ is simply an extension of 2TC's. With 2TC's taking a chunk of map area, With 2TC's increasing Population, With 2TC'S doubling Villagers - The late-game potentials have been unlocked early on, which is why AoT players don't mind: "Symmetrical" maps ("Mega Random" mod or AoMEE's maps) Larger maps Higher population Longer games Redesigning: The core gameplay* An entire civilization* * Post #2 - How did the expansion packs harm Norse Transforming AoM into AoE (Post #2 - "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future) No wonder why AoT players are so sensitive to fog of war and especially (Vanilla) map randomization! AoM's sandbox was not meant to hold 2TC's. Regarding AoM's sandbox design: Section Ending Note #2 Regarding Classical Age fighting: Post #2 - How did the expansion packs harm Norse? Regarding map design: Post #2 - On Random Maps Spoiler 1.1 Ending Note #1 - The macro-meta All of these features were intentionally implemented by Ensemble Studios with express purpose...: Relics Randomized maps (unedited) No AQ, 2TC's, free MU's, Shooting Docks, Titans, Atlanteans... ... to diversify matches by acting as barriers to the locking (standardization) of metas. But, in AoT, players have no other choice but to create: Balance™ "patches": To reset the metas (solved by AQ). Redesign mods: When "patches" can no longer "patch" (Post #2 - "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future). Nearly-symmetrical maps: For 2TC gameplay. The issue isn't because "AoT players don't want to adapt" or "They don't want to change". It's because they can't. Locked by the Expansion Pack's features, they have to be hoarders of the 2TC-meta/AQ-meta, executing the same macro-meta strategies on the "randomized" small-maps of near-symmetry. And after climbing to the top, they will get bored, and demand for more mods, modes, and maps to refresh their dead gamestyle of "strategery". History repeats itself. Good news - a solution is readily available! And it doesn't even require extensive balancing™ (redesigning) or playtesting (blind experimentation...) or development (...without Ensemble Studios' concepts/maths). Return to the original design. AoM sets the macro-meta free. "Well, there was more than one way* out of that scenario; you were just not playing the game correctly**". * I.e.: The micro-meta. ** I.e.: The macro-meta. TheAchronic (June 18, 2024) - https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/remove-auto-queue-in-the-remaster/249320/163 Bobby Fischer (American chess grandmaster, 11th World Chess Champion) explaining chess' macro-meta: Me and Bobby Fischer (2009) Spoiler Exchange these terms: "Fischer Random" with AoM "'Old' chess" with: AoT And/or: Balance™ patches And/or: Game-redesign mods "Creativity" with adaptation/prioritization "Theory" with: AQ And/or: Macro-meta strategies "Pre-arrangement" with: Macro-meta strategies And/or: 2TC's And/or: "Random" maps of near-symmetry And/or: Seasonal map rotations "Memorization" with: Macro-meta tactics And/or: Familiarity of: The 2TC meta The AQ meta Attack/Advance timings "Learn" with: "Solving"/discovering the macro-meta Extended interview portion: Spoiler 0:37 Chess is all about... memorization. It's all about pre-arrangement. Creativity... is lower down on the list. 0:52 "Old" Chess is: You're banging your head against the wall with this theory... trying to find some little improvement.... It's ridiculous; it gets harder and harder... you need more and more computers - you need more and more people working for you. 1:56 If you analyze chess... objectively, it's been a lousy game. 2:24 Why do you wanna get involved with something that is mainly rote and pre-arrangement? Obviously, it's not all... that, but, creativity is... maybe number 3 on the list, the first: Pre-arrangement and the memorization.... 2:54 Now, let me explain something about Fischer Random: I've never made any claims that this is the greatest thing... perfect, or... much better than the "old" chess. But, the point about Fischer Random is it's basically the same as the "old" chess, except, you get rid of the theory.... 4:33 There are a lot of games that you can come up with that have practical defects... not creative defects... in terms of discouraging people to "learn" them... that's my point about Fischer Random. 5:20 People think I'm anti-chess - no, I'm not anti-chess, I'm pro-chess; I'm trying to keep it alive! 6:23 I don't say, "I have more talent than...." I just know much more theory.... So, when you say, "I'm better than -" doesn't mean anything because of all this theory.... But, now, if you were to say, "Am I the most talented player?" That's something else. "Ironically, Mega Random is the 'Fischer Random' of AoM". Does Chess use Fog of War? Should maps be symmetrically or asymmetrically randomized if there was no Fog of War? What did 2TC's do to map design - to the macro-meta? Refer to Post #2 - On Random Maps - regarding (nearly-)symmetrical maps' macro-meta. 2:33 In the "old" chess - I have only one interest... to expose the pre-arrangement. ["Old" chess Players] are living in a dream world. Quote I don't say, "I have more talent than...." I just know much more theory.... So, when you say, "I'm better than -" doesn't mean anything because of all this theory.... But, now, if you were to say, "Am I the most talented player?" That's something else. - Bobby Fischer It is no longer you who is playing, but AQ (and 2TC's, free MU's, and free GP's). 2 Tweaks 2.0 God Powers tweaking Introduction 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) 2.0c Idea 3: No changes 2.1 Favor tweaking 2.2 Free units tweaking 2.3 Water tweaking 2.4 Wall tweaking 2.5 Telegraphing tweaking 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Spoiler 2.0 God Powers tweaking Introduction Source: Age of Mythology: Volume II (2002) Ensemble Studios' GP idea #1: God Powers cost time and are researched by a Hero unit which cannot attack or move during Invocation. Possibly: Renewable and cost resources. Purpose: Like a StarCraft Ghost deploying a Nuclear Strike, God powers can be telegraphed to opponents. Problems: Anti-climatic: God Powers can be denied with the Hero's death. Anti-thematic: Heroes seem less "heroic" if they are reduced to "idle" HP sponges. God Powers seem to be sourced from Heroes instead of the gods. Ensemble Studios' GP idea #2: Renewable God Powers which cost: Time and Food/Wood/Gold. Problem: Weaker-economy players are punished with multiple enemy GP's. Quote But we suspected that would never work because... a player with a strong economy... could just lob meteors at you every three minutes.... Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (GameSpy - August 21, 2002) Ensemble Studios' GP idea #3: Free God Powers and single-use. (In AoT: Atlantean GP's are multi-usage). Problems: Author's note: Only in AoT/AoMEE. Spoiler A recurring theme in AoT: the player didn't earn it, but they get it for free. That is why players would often hear complaints, like: "Nerf SS" "Nerf Zeus" "Nerf Ragnarok" "A/E OP" Power spikes are powerful because of the timing at which they were used. Consider: Why does Deathmatch restrict players from using God Powers after Advancing? Consider: Why do MU's cost resources? Spoiler JohnArbiter: https://www.twitch.tv/johnarbiter/clip/BlitheFineLyrebirdPJSugar-X1vcXT8THHWQ89Hf 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's Spoiler Alternatively, if free God Powers are to be kept.... 1. Revert all GP balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03. 2. And... Greek Archaic Age GP's: Bolt: Deals 80% ratio-damage:* Ox Carts* Rocs* Transport ships* Ulfsarks* Villagers* Deals 100% ratio-damage: Everything else* * For example: If a Roc has 10 HP left, Bolt would deal only 8 damage (80% ratio damage). Lure (1,000 Food): 250 Food Greek Classical Age GP's: Ceasefire (60 seconds): 15 seconds Pestilence (45 seconds): 20 seconds Restoration (8 seconds): 3 seconds Greek Heroic Age GP's: Bronze (90 seconds): 15 seconds Curse (800 HP): 450 HP Underworld (1,800 HP): 25% HP (450 HP) Greek Mythic Age GP's: Earthquake (12 seconds): 2 seconds Lightning Storm (15 seconds): 7 seconds Plenty Vault (3 resources/second): 0.75 resources/second Egytian Archaic Age GP's: Prosperity (50 seconds): 20 seconds Rain (60 seconds): 15 seconds Vision (20 seconds): 5 seconds Egytian Classical Age GP's: Eclipse (65 seconds): 15 seconds Shifting Sands (4,000 HP of friendly units): Can transport 450 HP of friendly units Cannot transport: Enemy units Mother Nature units Egytian Heroic Age GP's: Ancestors (60 seconds): 20 seconds Citadel (10 population): No population Locust Swarm (20 Hack, 27 seconds): 1 Hack 10 seconds Egytian Mythic Age GP's: Meteor (15 seconds): 10 seconds Son of Osiris (420 HP): 25% HP (105 HP) Tornado (20 seconds): 3 seconds Norse Archaic Age GP's: Dwarven Mine (500, 1,000, 3,000, 6,000 Gold): 200, 400, 1,200, 2,400 Gold Great Hunt (750 Food): 200 Food Spy (27 LOS): 6 LOS Norse Classical Age GP's: Forest Fire: 5 seconds Undermine: Deals no "bonus" damage towards Walls and Towers 25% potential max damage ("potential max damage" is 100% damage if Undermine was Invoked directly on a building (instead of it traveling)) Norse Heroic Age GP's: Flaming Weapons (60 seconds): 15 seconds Frost (50 seconds): 15 seconds Norse Mythic Age GP's: Nidhogg (2,000 HP): 25% HP (500 HP) Ragnarok: Either: 20% Villagers (Gatherers and Dwarves) 100% Dwarves? 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Spoiler Requirement 1: God Powers (single-use only) can only be researched in Town Center . Explanation: The purpose of researchable God Powers (single-use only) is to: Prevent undeserved power spikes Free the players' playstyles, undenied by "GP chess" ... by allowing players to trade their economy (Villager production ) for a powerful, game-changing "spell". Bad ideas: If God Powers (single-use only) could be researched in: The toolbar, it would still create an undeserved power spike because it is a simply a time bomb after the player Advances. Temples, it would still create an undeserved power spike because the player's economy is unaffected, and it would also punish Norse players who queue Hersirs from Temples. Requirement 2: God Powers (single-use only) cost time and Favor to research. Ideally, each God Powers should have their own research time and resource costs (as with MU's). But, as for simplicity (for the Developers): Archaic Age GP's cost: 30 seconds, 0 Favor Classical Age GP's cost: 1 minute and 30 seconds, 15 Favor Heroic Age GP's cost: 2 minutes, 25 Favor Mythic Age GP's cost: 2 minutes and 45 seconds, 35 Favor For example: Bolt (Archaic Age GP) will always cost 30 seconds and 0 Favor even if the player is in Mythic Age. Explanation: This would also allow for interesting games in which players could target enemy Favor buildings (Temples/Monuments) to hinder their researching a (single-use only) God Power. Regarding time: Archaic Age GP's 30 seconds is based off of Zeus' Bolt and the Villager Training Time (14 seconds). If Bolt costs 15 seconds (~1 Villager) to Invoke, it would still be beneficial for Zeus to Invoke it early on (for example, Bolting a Villager/Ulfsark building a Dock/Temple), a 1:1 loss. But if Bolt costs 30 seconds (~2 Villagers) to Invoke, the Zeus player would, at the very least, be more disadvantaged for Invoking it, a 2:1 loss. Spoiler For reference: Early matches may have less undeserved power spikes, as these Major Gods are less likely to: Zeus: Bolt builders Poseidon: Steal huntables (imbalanced on low hunt maps) Set: Steal huntables, teleport onto hunters (imbalanced on low hunt maps) Odin: Have extra hunt (imbalanced on low hunt maps) Loki: Get free espionage Classical/Heroic/Mythic Age GP's: 75 seconds - for reference: Spoiler Ceasefire : Denying rushes Pestilence : Denying military for 45 seconds Greek Villager Barracks/Archery-Range/Stables building time: ~23 seconds Training times: Hoplite (14s), Toxote (15s), Hippikon (20s/15s) Egyptian Villager Barracks building time: ~43 seconds Empowered Egyptian Villager Barracks building time: ~25 seconds Training times: Spearmen (9s), Axemen (10s), Slinger (14s) Norse Barracks building time: ~28 seconds Ulfsark Temple building time: ~37 seconds Training times: Ulfsark (9s/8.1s) , Throwing Axeman (16s/14.4s), Raiding Cavalry (18s/16.2s), Hersir (23s/20.7s) Shifting Sands : Teleporting onto hunters, stealing herdables, or shifting Villagers Forest Fire : Disrupting Wood economy, massacring Villagers Undermine : Destroying Towers or Walls Regarding Favor: Archaic Age GP's Favor cost is 0, otherwise, certain playstyles would be limited, and Zeus would also have an unfair advantage. Classical/Heroic/Mythic Age Favor cost - for reference: 15 Favor: Scylla, Anubite, Wadjet, Petsuchos, Roc, Einherjar, Troll, Fenris Wolf Brood, Jormangund 25 Favor: Manticore, Colossus, Mummy, Kraken Medusa: 32 Favor Bad ideas: If there was an announcement: Any time someone begins researching a God Power (single-use only): It will remove the element of surprise. The announcement can be spammed (E.g.: cancel research, research, cancel research...). See Section 2.5's "Remove the announcement for:". Whenever a God Power (single-use only) is fully researched: It will remove the element of surprise. Since God Powers are player-exclusive, game-changing power spikes, they should be telegraphed. See Section 2.5's "Remove the announcement for:". If previous Age God Powers: Are free after Advancing, it would still create an undeserved power spike; it's like getting free MU's from the previous Ages; the player didn't earn for it! Have lowered costs, it would still create an undeserved power spike; it's like lowering the prices of previous Age MU's! If God Powers only cost: Time, it would still create an undeserved power spike because it is simply a time bomb whenever the player Advances. Favor, it would still create an undeserved power spike as it does not give the opponent sufficient time to react to it. Idea 2 Continued... Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) tweaks: Spoiler 1. Revert all GP balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03 2. God Powers (single-use only) can only be researched in Town Center 3. God Powers (single-use only) cost time and Favor to research 4. And... Bolt : Deals ratio damage: 50%:* Nidhogg * Son of Osiris * 80%:* Ox Carts * Rocs * Transport Ships * 100%: Everything else* * For example: If Nidhogg has 2 HP left, Bolt would deal only 1 HP (50% ratio damage). Explanation: Regarding Nidhogg and SoO: For a Mythic-Age GP to be killed by a mere Archaic GP can be quite anti-climatic, and it denies the purpose of researching the GP (single-use only). Regarding Ox Carts: They are slow; the Norse player may have lost a considerable amount of resources by the time a replacement arrived to the resource site. Regarding non-offensive transport units: If non-offensive transport units were Bolted, the player may lose more than just one unit. See Section 2.0b regarding Archaic Age's GP cost philosophy. Lure : Food drawn (1,000): 1,500 Sentinel : Sentinels (4): 6 Ceasefire : Town Centers cannot be built during Ceasefire. Explanation: AoM's theme and balance: Arrow buildings cannot be built during Ceasefire. Town Centers are not Settlements; they are buildings, not Resources. Pestilence : Length (45s): 60s Bronze : Length (90s): 60s Hack/Pierce "armor" (30%): 45% Curse : HP (800): 1,200 HP Earthquake : Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.5) Lightning Storm : Length (15s): 20s Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.5) Prosperity : Gold gather rate (1.8x): 1.9x Length (50s): 60s Rain : The Player's Rain Farm gather rate (3x): 3.75x Every other players' Rain Farm gather rate (2x): 2.5x Explanation: Although Rain is a worldwide GP, Ra especially sends more rain onto the Invoker's fields. (Vanilla). Vision : Line of sight (60): 75 Eclipse : Affects every players': Monuments' Favor rate (1.3x): 6.0x (six) MU* Pierce "Armor" (+0%): +20% MU* Hack "Armor" (+15%) MU* cooldown (-50%): -45% MU* damage (+50%): +30% MU* speed (+20%): +10% * Non-Egyptian MU's receive 1/3 of bonuses. Length (65s): 60s Explanation: Eclipse is a worldwide GP. Serpents : Snakes (9): 13 No debuffs against: Villagers Fishing Ships Villagers deal no bonus damage against Serpents Increased guard area. Shifting Sands : Friendlies transport (800 HP): Unlimited Halved Transport area Ancestors : Minions (13): 18 Locust Swarm : Hack (20): 25 Deals full damage to friendly Villagers (see Section 2.5) Meteor : Adjust Crush damage so 1 Meteorite deals 95% damage to a full HP Town Center (140 HP left) Adjust Hack damage so 1 Meteorite deals 100% damage to a full HP War Elephant (0 HP left) Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.5) Explanation: The original Meteor hits "randomly". Tornado : Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.5) Dwarven Mine : Gold (500, 1,000, 3,000, 6,000): 625, 1,250, 3,750, 7,500 Great Hunt : Food bonus (750): 900 Forest Fire : Length limited to 60s Larger animation to compensate for increased: Pierce Crush Range Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.5) Healing Spring : Heals (3 HP/s): 3.7 HP/s Undermine : Wider area-of-effect TC potential max damage (630): 1050 Fortresses potential max damage (1330): 1550 Deals full damage to friendly buildings (see Section 2.5) Explanation: "Potential max damage" is 100% damage if Undermine was Invoked directly on a building (instead of it traveling). (Vanilla). Frost : Length (50s): 60s Walking Woods : Controllable Speed (3.50): 2.40 Explanation: If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit. 2.40 speed: Allows the Woods to be telegraphed instead of being a pseudo-fourth-Age destructive GP. Allows the Woods to be "local" Myth Units instead of being mobile MU's (rally-able by the player for their convenience). Compensates for their original Hack and Crush damage values. For reference: 2.20 speed: Caribou, Deer, Elk, Gazelle, Giraffe, Zebra 2.40 speed: Petrobolos, Catapult, Ballista 2.90 speed: Helepolis, War Elephant, Siege Tower, Ox Cart 3.25 speed: Portable Ram Fimbulwinter : Wolves (9): 15 Controllable No Crush damage Spawns at (4): Every neutral/enemy Settlements Explanation: If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit. Without Crush damage, Fimbul Wolves fulfill their roles as raiding (fast) units instead of raiding siege (slow) units. By spawning at every enemy and unbuilt Settlements, the GP remains logically consistent as a worldwide GP. Ragnarok : Idea #1: Villager-based Speed (4.80): 3.80 Or Idea #2: Ulfsark-based Unit type (Hero): Human Name (Hero of Ragnarok): Warrior of Ragnarok HP (120): 80 Damage (11): 9 Pierce armor (30): 10 Population (3): 2 Explanation: Idea #1: Villager-based The lowered speed allows opponents to: Have more time to prepare (telegraphed GP). "Base trade". Kite/snare/chase Heroes of Ragnarok with anti-infantry/ranged units. For reference: 3.80 speed: Villagers, Caravans, Gastraphetes 4.00 speed: Myrmidons, Toxotes, Pharaos, Slingers, Throwing Axemen 4.20 speed: Hoplites, Hypaspists, Axemen 4.80 speed: Hetairoi, Ulfsarks, Jarls 5.00 speed: Chariot Archers, Spearmen 5.50 speed: Hippikons 6.00 speed: Camelry, Raiding Cavalry Or Idea #2: Ulfsark-based Regarding Human status: So Myth Units can be a viable response. Regarding 80 HP: With a third of their original health removed, players may better deal with the waves of Ragnarok. Regarding lowered Damage and Pierce Armor: In the Mythic Age, the Invoker should have already invested in some Armory upgrades. Regarding 2 Population: Because they are no longer Hero units. Spoiler "Wouldn't Thor be restricted if Dwarven Mine (single-use only) is researchable?" Explanation: The Thor player will survive; Pig Sticker will just be researched later. For reference, Thor Dwarves' Food gathering rates: Hunt is the same as Gatherers Berry/herdable is 0.01 slower than Gatherers Instead of letting free God Powers decide/"automate" the game, let the players' skill (attention to detail, micro-management, macro-management) dictate their victories and losses! 2.0c Idea 3: No changes The Author's note: If you have paid for the hefty Advance fee, you shouldn't be punished. The only reason why free GP's take the blame is because of AoT, which features threw AoM's sandbox amok (culprits, in order: Free MU's, 2TC's, Atlanteans, high-hunt maps, AQ, Titans) by rewarding unprepared/booming playstyles, downplaying player efforts. Free MU's are not single-use, and, inflate the defense/offense of undeserving players. 2TC's forces in the late-game and also accelerates the access to free GP's and MU's by doubling Villager-production, map-control, and resources (therefore, a part of the early-game became downplayed/delayed/non-existent: Active-scouting, fighting for hunt and/or Settlements-for-Heroic-Age). Atlanteans' "weak" GP's have multiple uses. High-hunt maps further contributes to the above. AQ standardizes gameplay execution, solidifying metas. Titans "replaced" Wonders (defend for several minutes) and became their "mobile" versions instead. The Author's GP balance™ ideas: Spoiler 1. Revert all GP balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03 Bolt : Deals ratio damage: 50%:* Nidhogg * Son of Osiris * 80%:* Ox Carts * Rocs * Transport Ships * Ulfsarks * Villagers * 100%: Everything else* * For example: If Nidhogg has 2 HP left, Bolt would deal only 1 HP (50% ratio damage). Explanation: Regarding Nidhogg and SoO: For a Mythic-Age GP to be killed by a mere Archaic GP can be quite anti-climatic, and it denies the purpose of Invoking the GP. Regarding Ox Carts: They are slow; the Norse player may have lost a considerable amount of resources by the time a replacement arrived to the resource site. Regarding non-offensive transport units: If non-offensive transport units were Bolted, the player may lose more than just one unit. Regarding Ulfsarks/Villagers: Killing builders in Archaic Age ruins the opponent's Advance timing and causes a butterfly-effect to their early-game economy. Ceasefire : Length (60s): 45s Town Centers cannot be built during Ceasefire. Explanation: Arrow buildings cannot be built during Ceasefire. Town Centers are not Settlements; they are buildings, not Resources. Pestilence : Length (45s): 40s Restoration : Length (8s): 6s Explanation: 5 seconds as the base +1 second for: Extra aggression (to further march against the opponent's army) "Internet lag" or the illusion of it Vision : Length (20s): 15s Serpents : No debuffs against: Villagers Fishing Ships Villagers do not deal bonus damage against Serpents Shifting Sands : 1/3 Transport area Meteor : Adjust Crush damage so 1 Meteorite deals 95% damage to a full HP Town Center (140 HP left) Adjust Hack damage so 1 Meteorite deals 100% damage to a full HP War Elephant (0 HP left) Explanation: The original Meteor hits "randomly". Spy : Line of sight (27): 7 Healing Spring : Heals (3 HP/s): 3.3 HP/s Flaming Weapons : Length (60s): 50s Walking Woods : Controllable Spawns (8): 4 Explanation: If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit. Four spawns prevents it from being a pseudo-fourth-Age destructive GP. For reference: Walking Wood HP: 300 Crush damage: 30 Speed: 3.50 Portable Ram HP: 215 Crush damage: 40 Speed: 3.25 Fimbulwinter : Controllable Spawns at (4): Every neutral/enemy Settlements Explanation: If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit. By spawning at every enemy and unbuilt Settlements, the GP remains logically consistent as a worldwide GP. Ragnarok : Idea #1: Villager-based Speed (4.80): 3.80 Or Idea #2: Ulfsark-based Unit type (Hero): Human Name (Hero of Ragnarok): Warrior of Ragnarok HP (120): 80 Damage (11): 9 Pierce armor (30): 10 Population (3): 2 Explanation: Idea #1: Villager-based The lowered speed allows opponents to: Have more time to prepare (telegraphed GP). "Base trade". Kite/snare/chase Heroes of Ragnarok with anti-infantry/ranged units. For reference: 3.80 speed: Villagers, Caravans, Gastraphetes 4.00 speed: Myrmidons, Toxotes, Pharaos, Slingers, Throwing Axemen 4.20 speed: Hoplites, Hypaspists, Axemen 4.80 speed: Hetairoi, Ulfsarks, Jarls 5.00 speed: Chariot Archers, Spearmen 5.50 speed: Hippikons 6.00 speed: Camelry, Raiding Cavalry Or Idea #2: Ulfsark-based Regarding Human status: So Myth Units can be a viable response. Regarding 80 HP: With a third of their original health removed, players may better deal with the waves of Ragnarok. Regarding lowered Damage and Pierce Armor: In the Mythic Age, the Invoker should have already invested in some Armory upgrades. Regarding 2 Population: Because they are no longer Hero units. Spoiler 2.1 Favor tweaking Favor bounty Serpents have 0.48 Favor bounty Walking Woods have 2.16 Favor bounty Walls have 2.16 Favor bounty Explanation: GP MU's are still MU's. Walls have high HP and Hack armor. Spoiler Author's note: These changes are only for AoT/AoMEE and Section 2.0b (Researchable-but-stronger (single-use) God Powers). Advancing requires Favor: Classical Age Favor costs: 0 Heroic Age Favor costs: 25 Mythic Age Favor costs: 50 Explanation: Classical Age costs 0 Favor so to not deny certain playstyles, and also because Zeus has 10 free Favor. This would also create for interesting games where players can target enemy Temples or Monuments to hinder their Advancing. Remove Favor costs from Wonders and Fortresses Explanation: Fortresses and Wonders have nothing to do with MU's or GP's. Wonders can be rebuilt, unrestricted by Favor. Wonder Favor cost is already paid by Mythic Age's cost. Fortress Favor cost is "reallocated" to the TC. TC's include a 5 Favor cost Explanation: TC's: Are mini-fortresses for map control Give extra Population Produce Villagers May be where GP's are researched (Section 2.0b) 2.2 Free units tweaking Regarding free huntables Set does not receive free animals after Advancing Explanation: Free huntables are imbalanced, especially on low-hunt maps. Free animals are like free MU's. Regarding free scouting Poseidon's Hippocampus Idea #1: Hippocampus do not respawn, and, last 30 seconds. Or Idea #2: The first Hippocampus will spawn in Classical Age, and subsequent spawns cost: Limit 1 (total Hippocampi) 50 Food 2 Favor 1 Population Explanation: Without this tweak, Poseidon players do not need to scout with a Villager/Fishing-Ship, saving them Advancing time and resources. Without this tweak, the free LOS enables Poseidon players on: Anatolia-styled maps: To adjust their BO/strategy early for a full-scale Water fight if they discovered an opponent's dock on their Hippocampus' spawn side. Mediterranean-/Midgard-styled maps: To know if their opponent is commited to Water or land fighting. Or Idea #3: No changes (see Section 2.3). Odin's Ravens Idea #1: Archaic Age Ravens do not respawn, and, last 30 seconds. Or Idea #2: Vanilla spawns (2 Classical Age Ravens), but, subsequent spawns cost: Limit 2 (total Ravens) 25 Food 1 Favor 1 Population Explanation: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had Archaic flying Scouts cost resources. The balance™ patch gives Odin 60+ seconds of extra scouting than any other Major Gods in the very early game - when micro-management burden has not yet peaked! Consider: What if maps have Fog of War removed? That is what Archaic Age Ravens do! Archaic Age Ravens are arguably as good as Loki's Spy GP or even better. For reference: Raven 20 LOS 4.00 speed 0 Food, 0 Favor, 0 Population, 0 seconds training time Available in Archaic Age (balance™ patch); Classical Age (Vanilla) Pegasus 18 LOS 5.00 speed 50 Food, 2 Favor, 2 Population, 6 seconds training time Available in Archaic Age Winged Messenger Pegasi have extra LOS, halved training time, and do not cost Food 50 Gold and 10 Favor Available in Classical Age Like 2 pegasi - Age of Free Insurance™! Regarding free military Poseidon's Militia : Cost 0 Population Last 10 seconds Explanation: Militia punish opponents, especially their siege units, for destroying Poseidon's buildings. The tweak allows Militia to function like defensive Mercenaries. As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Militia thematically serve as temporary minutemen. Hades' Shades : Cost 0 Population Last 20 seconds (as they deal MU damage, see Section 2.6) Do not receive Armory upgrades (undo the balance™ change) Explanation: Shades punish opponents for killing Hades units. The tweak allows Shades to function like defensive Mercenaries. No Armory upgrades because Myth Units are not Human Units. As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Shades thematically serve as wrathful spirits of the fallen, roaming the surface once more, after striking a shady deal with the god of the Underworld. Loki's MU-spawns: Last 45 - 60 seconds, randomly Private features (visible only to the player and allies): Title: [Myth Unit] of Loki Duration Set Animal's black effect Explanation: Mu-spawns punish opponents for fighting against Loki's Hersirs. No 0 Population: Since Loki is the only Norse Major God to not have any hunting bonuses, Ensemble Studios gave him free MU spawns (and faster Longhouse training times). Although Loki's Hersirs are rather limited in the late-game (especially so at full Population, unable to spawn free MU's; and dealing with counter-infantry), hunt should be depleted by then. 45 - 60 seconds (randomly): The tweak buffers Loki's random power spikes, allowing his MU spawns to function like Mercenaries, while lasting long enough to discourage opponents from retreating in battles on the basis of waiting for MU spawns to expire. Private features: So the opponent cannot tell which enemy Loki MU is a spawn, allowing for player guerilla/sacrificial tactics in the midst of chaotic situations. As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Loki's MU-spawns thematically serve as deceived/coerced units fighting on behalf of the trickster god. 2.3 Water tweaking AoM's Water balance was a rushed development. Quote A naval combat model that is constantly in flux.... Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (GameSpy - September 5, 2002) And based from the other "lost" articles/videos, the implementation of the current ship units was perhaps a last-minute job. Because, the original intention was for military units to board ships. Therefore, naval combat was meant to be delayed even further with the construction of military buildings and levying of units. And therefore, naval combat would feature even fewer ships because of the required military units. This meant Water micro-management would be quite intense. (This might also mean Players could unboard (some) military units from ships to raid enemy Villagers or sack the Docks instead of engaging in ship warfare)? This meant players would need to prioritize between the management of fishing pools (Water combat) and land offense/defense. (Villager production (Food-based) might also be affected by land-military production)? Because, if a player loses on Water, they would still have an established land military, ready to attack the opponent who overspent (Wood?) on Water. The current Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps require serious revamping or else should be discarded from Ranked play. Consider: Which "civilizations" (tech-trees) tend to enjoy playing on Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps? (And what are Water Myth Units?) Why does a portion of the playerbase, across different skill sets and "civilizations" (tech-trees), instant-Resign/-Save on Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps? Why were land-map-only mods created? Why does Water meta feel so alien from land's? The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta: Spoiler // The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. // Make military ship stats the same for all civilizations Explanation: May the player with the best micro-management win Water fights! Because Greek ships have extra range: they shoot further and kite better. Because Norse ships are slower: they receive more arrows while kiting (and their (meager) extra damage is negligible when their wood economy can't even pump out ships as well as the Greeks/Egyptians!). Egyptians: Fishing Ships do not build First Dock costs 50 Gold , and subsequent Docks cost 75 Gold Explanation: Egyptians build "infinite" Docks. By the time 1 Dock is down, 2 more spring out of nowhere! Consider how different Water meta would be if Greeks and Norse could build 50-Wood Docks with their fishing ships as well! Dock Cost: (Building animations were not calculated). Greek Dock Wood cost (100) ÷ Greek/Norse Wood gathering rate (1.08) = 92.5 seconds per Greek Dock 92.5 seconds per Greek Dock × Egyptian Gold gathering rate (0.82) = 75.85 Gold (As with Norse, building time not included (otherwise: Egyptian Docks should cost 65 Gold; and Norse Docks (movement speed included) 85 Wood). Shooting Docks as a researchable Tech in Heroic Age? Explanation: This frees the playstyles of those who optimized their Build Orders on Water Maps (instead of opting for the standard™ 3-Docks booming meta): As a Technology: Costing resources and time to research. Researchable in Heroic Age: Allowing sufficient time for Classical Age naval warfare. Classical Age Hammer and Siege ships? Explanation: For naval warfare variety? Add Water Myth Units to every Minor God without one? Explanation: For naval warfare variety? Remove Water Myth Units from every Minor God? Explanation: For naval warfare balance? Slower ship turning Explanation: For naval warfare variety? // The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. // Water's macro-meta alternative: Remove large-body-of-water Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps from Ranked map lists. (E.g.: Anatolia, Mediterranean, Midgard). Add new Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps in which bodies-of-water (any size) must not extend past 1/3 of the map's length or width. Spoiler Explanation: Civilizations retain their identities (strengths and weaknesses). This allows for tighter matches instead of the standard™ 3-Docks boomy longplay. 2.4 Wall tweaking Add Wall-connector redzoning to these buildings: 1: Docks Fortresses Towers 4: Wonders Explanation: Wall-connectors are the endpoints of Walls. Wall-segments are structures automatically-generated between Wall-connectors, but weaker and longer. By building a Wall on "itself", players: Save Gold Inflate the defense of the protected building, rendering them "immortal" against non-ranged units, punishing: Early aggression Small raids Norse units But due to unpaid/undeserved perks (Age of Free Insurance™), Wall-connectors are a staple in a Free GP, Free MU meta. Regarding Fortresses, Towers, and Wonders: But, by removing Age of Free Insurance™, undeserved power spikes should lessen, therefore, such defenses should not be as necessary, as: Fortresses rapidly fire 3 arrows. Towers have very little surface area (smaller than a House!). Wonders are 10-minute winning-conditions. They are usually defended heavily. Regarding Docks: Half of its building is in the water, already reducing its surface area for land units to attack. Those who do not plan, micro, or protect their Dock builders well should be punished. Players are entitled to equal opportunities to building Docks, not equal results. This is Age of Mythology, not Age of Dock Spam™ Passive Aggression Edition. Reduce the redzoning of these Resources to 1 Wall-connector: Gold Mines Settlements Explanation: By default, Gold Mines and Settlements have 2 - 3 Wall-connector redzoning, which prevents: Defenders from walling-off invaders effectively. Aggressors from walling-off resources effectively. Reduce Wall's Line of Sight Explanation: So players cannot remotely-scout resource statuses (e.g.: Gold Mines, Settlements, hunt) with Wall LOS. Idea: Remove Wall "shared" damage? Explanation: Absurdity. For example: Adjacent Walls: A, B, C. Wall B has 1 HP left, whereas Walls A and C have 600 HP. If Wall A/C was attacked, their HP (600) would become 1 HP. Bad ideas: Spoiler Bad idea 1: Walls are built per standard/longest segment; they can no longer be built via click-and-drag. Explanation: To prevent Wall-connector spam. To prevent multiple Wall spam on chokepoints. Problem: Walling may be tedious and restricted as players would need to: Rotate each Wall-segment Align each thin Wall-segment correctly Spend more Gold Bad idea 2: Wall-connectors and Short Wall-segments are always 55 HP, regardless of upgrades. Explanation: To mitigate Wall-connector spamming's potential. Prior to the discovery of Wall-connectors, players would protect their Towers with Houses. To equalize Wall-connector HP to House HP: For reference: House: 450 HP, 30% Hack Armor Wooden Wall: 600 HP, 65% Hack Armor Finding true HP: 450 House HP / 0.7 = 643 true House HP 600 Wall HP / 0.35 = 1714 true Wall HP Finding multiplier: 1714 true Wall HP / 643 true House HP = 2.67 Finding equalized HP: 600 Wall HP / 2.67 multiplier = 225 Wall-connector HP equalized to House HP Finding HP equalized to surface area (Wall-connectors are about 1/4 the surface area of Houses): 225 equalized Wall HP / 4 = 56.3 HP Problem: Due to how AoM handles Wall HP, if Wall-connectors are 55 HP, then every Wall adjacent to Wall-connectors are "55 HP". 2.5 Telegraphing tweaking Remove F4 (Scores) Explanation: Player actions are telegraphed. One example: A dip in the player's Score would notify attentive opponents that one is Advancing due to a significant "loss" in the player's resources. Edit F7 to only show used God Powers Explanation: This hides the player's: Age status Choice of Minor God This rewards those who scout. This allows for new tactics/strategies due to the element of surprise. Lower non-ranged buildings' Line of Sight Explanation: So players cannot remotely-scout enemy building-decor to determine their Age status. This rewards those who scout. This allows for new tactics/strategies due to the element of surprise. Completed Town Centers should not be updated in Fog of War Explanation: This rewards those who scout. Remove the announcement for: Completed Advancings Completed Town Centers Garrisoned Relics Explanation: This rewards those who scout. This allows for new tactics/strategies due to the element of surprise. Researched God-Power announcements punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b); (free) announcements are better suited for free God Powers. Players can always F7 to scout: Age statuses through: Used God Powers Do not remove annoucements for: Relics: They telegraph to opponents that an exclusive, RNG item is in a player's possession. Completed Advancings: They telegraph to opponents that a God Power may be in the process of being researched. Researched God Powers: They are player-exclusive, game-changing power spikes. Spoiler Cancelled GP's receive a cooldown penalty God Power cancellations are announced Two minutes penalty? Explanation: Researched God-Power announcements punish players if GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b). This prevents: Announcement spamming Repetitive mind-games/"abuse" This allows for the following tactics: Element of surprise Exploiting an inattentive/neurotic player An example: Cancelling Ragnarok at 95% research to bait an opponent into amassing counter-infantry units. Hp-damaging area-of-effect GP's deal full damage to friendly units'/buildings' HP Forest Fire Undermine (buildings) Locust Swarm (Villagers) Meteor Shower Tornado Earthquake Lightning Storm Explanation: This would punish players if GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b). This buffers: cheesy "abuse"/plays, power spikes, and inflated offense. For example: Spoiler Forest Fire: Villagers trapped between raiders and trees. Undermine: Walls constructed during Ceasefire. Locust Swarm: Villagers catfighting over a Gold Mine. Meteor Shower, Tornado, Earthquake, Lightning Storm: An invading army. Regarding the effects of non-HP-damaging area-of-effect GP's, the gods can discriminate on which units/buildings to target (e.g.: Restoration, Curse, Frost) so to avoid friendly-fire, whereas destructive GP effects are clearly indiscriminative. Consider: Spoiler Forest Fire: Can Freyja protect lungs from ash and smoke? Undermine: There is clearly something going on in the subterranean, billowing blue smoke all the way down its line. Locust Swarm: Unlike Plague of Serpents or Minions, Locust Swarm does not produce in-game units. Meteor Shower: How would Set spare your army from meteorites raining at speeds of 1500 kilometers per hour? Tornado: Likewise, with winds up to 500 kilometers per hour? Earthquake: If the ground beneath your army opened up and swallowed your enemies, would not the same laws of physics apply to your army too or would they levitate instead? Lightning Storm: This isn't one of Zeus' Bolts. And lightning typically strikes the tallest objects. 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Revert most balance™ changes to AoM Patch 1.10 Explanation: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had Technologies cost their prices and training times. Players are not entitled to a Minor God's Techs simply by booming/Advancing; this is Age of Mythology, not Age of Co-Pay Insurance™; players must earn the resources to research the technology. Since Minor God Technologies are player-exclusive, by tweaking them to become more potent, along with cheaper prices, the balances™ effectively turn them into "Armory"/"Granary" upgrades (cheap, accessible), giving the player many undeserved advantages. Although AoM Patch 1.10 is imbalanced, it can serve as a starting reference (from where Ensemble Studios left off) for future balancers™ to tweak the game without automation and Age of Free Insurance™. Undo map balance™ Explanation: Resolving map screws is not the same thing as balancing™ maps. Nearly-symmetrical maps undo the purpose of Random Maps and furthers the auto-pilot, booming playstyle by saving the player the effort to scout thoroughly and adapt to the map. Refer to Post #2 - On Random Maps - regarding AoM's map design. Myth Units can Garrison in Fortresses Explanation: 3-arrow buildings can already Garrison Siege and Cavalry (whereas 2-arrow buildings cannot). Transport units are slightly larger Explanation: To avoid absurdity (e.g.: 15 War Elephants in a Roc). Garrison/transport limit is Population-based instead of unit-count-based For example: Barracks can only rally-garrison 2 Ulfsarks instead of 5. Rocs can only transport 5 Catapults instead of 15. Town Centers can only garrison 7 Toxotes instead of 15. Bad ideas: Spoiler Bad idea 1: Every building is Garrisonable. Problem: AoM's design: Only Garrisoned buildings shoot arrows. To reward raiding/aggression. Bad idea 2: Any unit can Garrison. Absurdity example: A Helepolis can fit into a Tower (2-arrow building). Alternative: Every unit can Garrison into 3-arrow buildings. Bad idea 3: Only Villagers, infantry, and archers can be Transported. Explanation: To follow the Garrison theme. Problem: Goes against Ensemble Studio's gameplay design and expectations regarding Transport units. Hall of Thanes Speed Hall of Thanes give Hersirs 1.15x Speed instead of +1.10. Explanation: Absurdity: Infantry should not run as fast as Cavalry. For reference: Thor: Base Speed: 4.2 +1.10 Speed: 5.3 x1.15 Speed: 4.83 (near Ulfsark) Loki: Base Speed: 4.62 +1.10 Speed: 5.72 (faster than a Hippikon!) x1.15 Speed: 5.313 Infantry: Hoplite: 4.20 Spearman: 5.00 Ulfsark: 4.80 Cavalry: Hippikon: 5.50 Camelry: 6.00 Raiding Cavalry: 6.00 Alternative: Explanation: To honor Ensemble Studios' original design for the Tech by limiting the meta for lone/few-units Hersir raiding instead. Idea #1: Hall of Thanes grants Hersirs a Fenris Wolf Brood perk* of +1.10 Speed. Idea #2: Explanation: Only if Idea #1 cannot be implemented. Hall of Thanes grants Hersirs +0.4 Speed. Hersirs have a Fenris Wolf Brood perk* of 1.15x Speed. * Fenris Wolf Brood perk: Same units have increased speeds the more they are in a group. Dwarf Ulfsark models Female Ulfsark models Priests can pick up Relics Explanation: They are Hero units. Spoiler They are slow (3.60 Speed). For reference: Greek Heroes: Classical Age versions (4.30) Egyptian Heroes: Priests (3.60), Pharaohs (4.00) Norse Heroes: Hersirs (4.20) Other 3.60 Speed units: Son of Osiris, Petsuchos, Phoenixes, Trolls Civilizational themes and balance: They are the "oldest civilization". ("Advanced" means more Relics). They hold treasures worth raiding for. (Stereotypically in pyramids/tombs). Egyptians are generally reserved (defensive-oriented) in Classical Age for combat and scouting. See Section 3.0's "Because Ensemble Studios had centered its version of..." regarding "Relics". Set animals either have lowered HP, damage, speed, or armor, but: Idea #1: Deal MU damage. Explanation: They are Myth Units. Idea #2: Are not Myth Units. Shades deal MU damage Explanation: They are Myth Units (and last 20 seconds; see Section 2.2). Temples have lowered HP and space Greek/Egyptian (1200): 800 HP Norse (960): 640 HP 65% of original surface-area Explanation: HP: So Garrisoned Relics could be captured more easily by enemy players. For reference - common-buildings with HP lower than 1200: Farm: 200 Drop-site: 400 House: 450 Tower: 550 Surface area: Following the logic: Larger buildings have higher HP. Herdable Line of Sight (3): 1 Explanation: So players will actually scout the map with scout units instead of using the same Build Orders on randomized maps in a small sandbox. Relics Spoiler UNITS "Armor" Armor of Achilles (+5%): +15% Infantry Hack "Armor". Catoblepas Scales (+20% MU Crush "Armor"): ... and +10% Hack and Pierce "Armor". Explanation: This is not "Alpha" AoM, as: Siege Units' Crush damage now barely harm units. MU's are now smaller in size. Heras Thundercloud Shawl (+5%): +10% Human Pierce "Armor". Constitution Girdle of Hippolyta (+5% Toxote HP): ... and +10% for Chariot-Archer/Throwing-Axemen HP. Pygmalions Statue (+40%): +5% Villager HP. Explanation: Villagers have an extra "1" hit instead of "5". Tusk of the Iron Boar (+10%): +5% Cavalry HP, +10% Chariot Archer HP, and +5% for Ra's cavalry and Chariot Archers. Damage Eye of Ornlu (+5% counter-infantry damage): ... and +10% for Greek and +15% for Norse. Fetters of Fenrir (Villagers can one-shot huntables): ... and +10% Villager Hack Damage. Explanation: In theme with the relic: Villager preservation. And also because Vanilla maps are mainly low-hunt. Odins Spear (+5%): +10% Hoplite/Spearman and +15% Ulfsark damage. Toothed Arrows (+5%): +10% Pierce damage for Archer-class/Ballista and +5% for Hades, and +10% for Throwing Axemen. Khopesh of Horus (2x): ... and 2.25x for Myrmidons/Hetairois/Gastraphetes and 1.85x damage for Priest/Pharaoh and 1.10x for Son of Osiris and 1.35x for Norse Heroes and Jarls. Reed of Nekhebet (2x): 1.5x Water MU damage. Scarab Pendant (2x): 1.35x Helepolis/Siege-Tower/Portable-Ram Crush damage. Free Golden Bridle of Pegasus (1 free, respawnable Pegasus). Golden lions (2): 3 free, respawnable lions. Line of Sight (18): 7. Monkey Head (3): 5 free, respawnable monkeys. Line of Sight (16): 6. Gathering rates Harmonia's Necklace (+10% Gold gathering rate). Black Lotus (+10%): +15% Farming rate. Shard of Blue Crystal (+5%): +10% Wood/Gold gathering rate. Staff of Dionysus (+20 Food carry): ... and +5% herdable gathering rate and +15% for Chickens/Berries. Explanation: 5% for herdable gathering rate because Husbandry (herdable tech) already exists. Line of Sight Harter's Folly (+2): +6 Kataskopos/Greek-Heroes/Priests/Pharaohs/Set-Animals/Ulfsarks/Hersirs and +2 for Pegasi/Hippocampus/Ravens Line of Sight. Explanation: Regarding flying units: They could surveil, undeterred, unless picked by ranged attacks. Regarding Hippocampus: Water surface area is small. Pelt of Argus (+6): +4 Line of Sight for all units. Prices Wedjat Eye (excluding Favor, MU's are 10% cheaper). Bow of Artemis (15%; 20%): 10% cheaper Wood/Gold for archers, 5% for Chariot Archers; 10% for Greek and Egyptian ranged Myth Units, 5% for Norse ranged Myth Units. Dwarven Calipers (20%): 10% cheaper Siege for Greek and Egyptian, and 5% for Norse. Sistrum of Bast (10% cheaper Villagers): ... and +5% for Dwarves. Speed Kitahra of Apollo (+10% Villager speed). Boots of Kick Everything (+10% Hero speed): ... and +5% for Loki's Hersirs. Mithril Horseshoes (+10%): +5% Cavalry speed. Training time Canopic Jar of Imsety (15%): 10% quicker Infantry training time and +5% for Loki. Pandoras Box (25% quicker MU training time): ... and 20% for Norse MU's. Miscellaneous Trios Bow (+2 Archer-class/Ballista Range and Line of Sight). Tail of Cerberus (25% faster MU Special-attack cooldown). Osberg Wagon (25%; +15%): Caravans are 10% cheaper and receive +10% speed. Buildings Damage Arrows of the Alfar (+20%): +25% Building Pierce damage and +5% for Hades. Tower of Sestus (+30%; +10%): +40% Tower Pierce damage and +20% for Hades, +15% Tower Melee damage. Constitution Shingles of Steel (3x): 2x House and storage building HP and 1.65x for Hades. Trojan Gate Hinge (+20%): +25% Wall HP and +5% for Hades. Nose of the Sphinx (+10%): ... and +5% for Hades. Miscellaneous Blanket of Empress Zoe (+5%): +10% Crush "Armor" and +5% Hack "Armor". Buhen Flagstone (25%): 50% cheaper Walls. Eye of Horus (+2 Population per TC): ... and +1 for Isis. Head of Orpheus (+8): +6 building Line of Sight. Miscellaenous Resource-generation Ankh of Ra (2.4 Favor/minute). Ring of the Nibelung (18): 50 Gold/minute. Explanation: Based off of 1 unempowered Egyptian miner. Ship of Fingernails (24): 35 Food/minute. Explanation: Based off of 1 unempowered Egyptian farmer. Miscellaneous Wand of Gambantein (n/a). Anvil of Hephaestus (10%): Armory upgrades are 15% cheaper and 5% for Thor. Free Egyptian buildings cost 5 Gold? Explanation: "Walling" should not be free. Example: Building 3 half-finished Houses adjacent to a Dock to protect the Laborer from harrassment. 3 DLC's 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Spoiler 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) All attempts at creating a new tech-tree ("civilization") have ended up as pseudo copies of existing ones: Spoiler AoT: Atlanteans are simply a Norse-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Egyptian undertones. Primary - Norse-based: Economy (no drop-off location (e.g.: Norse's Ox Carts), strong early-game economy (e.g.: Norse's hunting bonuses and Dwarves)) Siege (point-blank Destroyers, minimum-range Fire Siphons) Secondary - Egyptian-based: Human military: Norse > Atlanteans > Greek (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed in Heroic+ Ages: Greek-based (types) units). Specialized hard-counter units Scouting (walking Obelisks) Rushed development (or uncreative) - features shared in both expansion packs: Fortress: Greek-based (siege facility; Helepolis-inspired Fire Siphons; Myrmidon-inspired Fanatics) Human unit variety: Greek-based Favor: Egyptian-based (trickle: Town Center) Wall: Egyptian-based (Iron Wall, Orichalkos Wall) Aggression: Norse-like (fast Advance capability) "Odd" (non-AoE-standard) unit composition: Norse-based TotD: Chinese are simply an Egyptian-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Greek undertones. Primary - Egyptian-based: Economy (GP's, Major God perks, Gardens, 4-Villager-start ("Pharaoh"), lowered gathering rates) Siege (Catapult-clone Sitting Tigers) Secondary - Greek-based: Human military: Egyptian > Chinese > Norse (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed in Heroic+ Ages: Norse-based (odd-unit composition) units). Jason/Odysseus hybrid Heroes Hoplite-clone Halberdiers Toxote-clone Chu Ko Nus Gastraphetes-clone Fire Lances Scouting (lesser Greek Scouts) Rushed development (or uncreative) - features shared in both expansion packs: Fortress: Greek-based (siege facility; Gastraphetes-clone Fire Lances) Human unit variety: Greek-based Favor: Egyptian-based (trickle: Garden) Wall: Egyptian-based (Earthen Wall, Great Wall) Aggression: Norse-like (fast Advance capability) "Odd" (non-AoE-standard) unit composition: Norse-based Coming soon™: Aztecs are simply an Egyptian-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Norse undertones? And why is that? Because Ensemble Studios had centered its version of balance across a rough rock-paper-scissors formula and civilizational themes: Spoiler Military counters: Myth Units > Humans > Heroes > Myth Units... Human military counters: Infantry > Cavalry > Archers > Infantry... Water military counters: Arrow > Hammer > Siege > Arrow... Speed: Egyptian > Norse > Greek Range: Greek > Egyptian > Norse Cost-efficiency: Norse > Greek > Egyptian Price/HP/damage/Armor: Greek > Norse > Egyptian Barracks-focused: Norse > Greek > Egyptian Fortress-focused: Egyptian > Norse > Greek Specialization-focused (Academy/Range/Stables/Fortress): Greek > Egyptian > Norse Build Order complexity: Norse > Egyptian > Greek Strategic flexibility: Greek > Egyptian > Norse Hero range: Egyptian > Greek > Norse Hero melee: Norse > Greek > Egyptian Scouting*: Norse (double/triple... Ulfsarks) > Greek (Pegasi) > Egyptian (Obelisks) Relics*: Egyptian > Greek > Norse * The order is reversed, ideally, later in the game. Age: Classical Age (Norse), Heroic Age (Egyptian), Mythic Age (Greek) Spoiler 2023 Season 3 Champions League - Voobly tournament statistics win-rate percentages Ensemble Studios' maths in-the-field (enhanced by AQ, and, despite balance™ patches) - each civilization's late-game status in their respective order. Combat: Aggressive (Norse), Defensive (Egyptian), Mixed (Greek) Counters/damage: Greek (Pierce) > Norse (Hack) > Egyptian (Crush) > Greek (Pierce)... (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed due to the unlocked, varied units in Heroic+ Ages). Greek valued resources: Wood, Food, Gold Islands have plenty of ore, but fewer trees than larger land masses. The ocean provides much seafood. Egyptian valued resources: Gold, Wood, Food The Nile River allows for high yields of crops and animals, but the scarcity of trees and other resources in the desert meant trading is paramount to survival. Norse valued resources: Food, Gold, Wood Scandinavia has many trees, but the cold requires more effort for food output. Dwarves are legendary miners. But new titles never learn. That was why Vanilla players eventually dropped the game after AoT was released. That was why even AoT players rated TotD negatively on Steam. (Consider: What is AoT had a steam page in 2003?) And that is why Aztecs and etc. will make the same mistakes. History repeats itself. The core gameplay was already mathematically determined. For starters, try calculating every civilization's Villager gathering-rates-to-training-times ratio. Ippert's Encyclopedia (Excel spreadsheets): https://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=11472 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2151972324 By creating a new "civilization" (tech-tree), Developers must come face-to-face with the maths Ensemble Studios have based AoM's balance upon. RTS games are not MOBA's (controllable single-character game genre). Tech-trees ("civilizations") are not like "Champions"/"Heroes" that can be added every season, regardless of extensive planning and testing. Even Blizzard had few tech-trees for their RTS games: StarCraft (3 factions) and Warcraft (4 races). Can you explain, without delving into numbers: What makes Byzantines unique? Access to exclusive units? Boosted stats of core units? Denial of core upgrades/buildings/units? But in AoM, "civilization" design is not merely determined by uniqueness alone. There is a synergestic and thematic design/contrast for each asymmetrical feature. There is a give-and-take relationship, not simply: Add, add, remove, add.... Short examples: Spoiler Egyptian: Theme: "Slave" labor. Laborers gather/build slower. "Master" Pharaoh "empowers" disgruntled workers. A "slow" civilization cannot expect to compete with faster ones early on, and therefore should focus on defense first and economy later. Theme: Lack of wood in a desert. Most buildings are free or cost Gold. Stronger buildings - ties in with the: Nile River theme Defensive theme Theme: Nile River in food production. Cheaper and expendable units, but, cannot siege. Ties in with the defensive theme. Ties in with the raidable theme: The envy of (inferior) neighboring civilizations. Theme: Ancient/advanced/early. Starts with a Hero unit (for Relics) Ties in with the raidable theme: "Pyramids" and tombs. Obelisks (scouting building) Ties in with the Defensive theme. Ties in with the theme of "hubris": Why conquer when you have it all? Etc. Norse: Theme: Unsophisticated "barbarians". Melee-focused (no archery units except for lobbing axes). Aggression-focused (ties in with the underdefended base theme). Only infantry can build (ties in with the underdefended base theme). Hunter/gatherer society (accelerated hunt rate). Oxcarts instead of supply depots (i.e.: If the Norse player loses one, they would need to send a replacement instead of constructing one on-site). Ties in with the Wonder dilemma (their villagers cannot build). Theme: "Vikings". The men are out fighting: Peaceful village/home-base: Hersirs (Heroes) cannot be queued from Town Centers. Underdefended base (ripe for invasion by other "vikings") Villagers cannot build Walls (because they don't "need to" as they are not the ones getting raided; also isolated in the North). Forward building (unit production at the enemy's doorstep) potential. Weaker buildings as a result: Makeshift buildings quickly assembled on enemy ground. Ties in with the "unsophisticated 'barbarians'" theme. Etc. (Bullet points do this a complete disfavor). And compare them to the civilizations of AoE's 1 - 4 and AoMEE. AoM has 3 asymmetrical tech-trees called "civilizations"/"cultures", unlike AoE2/AoE4, which only has "1" tech-tree, but many "civilizations". Stop conflating these with each other: AoE2: 1 base tech-tree with pruned and grafted branches AoE4: 1 base tech-tree with pruned and deviantly-longer, grafted branches AoM: 3 asymmetrical tech-trees AoT: "4" asymmetrical tech-trees AoMEE: "4.5" asymmetrical tech-trees AoM's "civilizations" are literal tech-trees. AoE's "civilizations" are variations of 1 tech-tree. However, regarding the "civilization" variations of AoE, the possibilities for new "civilizations" are endless. But, are AoM Managers/Developers aware that civilization variations of Age of Empires' already exist in AoM? 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative Idea, part 1: Create new Major and/or Minor Gods for the existing 3 tech-trees: Greeks can use nymphs, or, reuse Atlantean Major/Minor Gods (because their MU's were based off of Greek mythology!) Egyptians can use some cat Norse can use a giant Explanation: Developers can always create new content, and: Casuals receive new content. Competitive players need not worry about balance™ because there would still be the same 3 tech-trees. For reference: Greeks can use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_creatures Egyptians have thousands of gods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_deities Norse have Giants, Elves, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creatures_in_Norse_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_jötnar_in_Norse_mythology Idea, part 2: And they do not need to be lore accurate. Explanation: Many of AoM's gods do not have GP's, MU's, Techs, or Perks that reflect them. For example, Bragi (Norse god of poetry) has nothing to do with: Ulfsarks Flaming Weapons Battle Boars (which was crafted by dwarves!) Being lore accurate may restrict: Development creativity* Gameplay variety* * Source: "Tale of the Dragon" expansion pack (AoMEE) Sample template: Major God: Hodr (the blind Aesir, tricked by Loki to accidentally kill Baldr) GP: Tech: Perk: New Classical Age Minor God: Aegir (sea giant) GP: MU: Tech 1: Tech 2: New Heroic Age Minor God: Ran (Aegir's wife) GP: MU: Tech 1: Tech 2: New Mythic Age Minor God: Alvaldi (giant) GP: MU: Tech 1: Tech 2: 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Idea: New Campaign scenarios do not need to include Arkantos and the gang; they can be separate stories like "The Golden Gift" Campaign. Idea: Introduce an expansion pack titled, "Enemies"? The Campaign is about the resurrection of enemies of the Major Gods. Introduce new antagonistic Major/Minor Gods to the existing 3 civilizations. Idea: "Jungling"? https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Jungling Myth Units guard/patrol contested hotspots/Relics/map-exclusive-content? Idea: Create a new map with telegraphed and localized God Powers on contested hotspots? Idea: Add a DLC themed around Underworld, Duat, and Hel? Maps with: Control over "tombstones" for Campaign Shades? Map-exclusive: GP's? Relics? Undead MU's? Naval warfare? (Use Scenarios 9 and 10 ("Revelation" and "Strangers") from the original Campaign as inspiration for the addition of new features?). Idea: Cursed Relics (map-specific?)? Certain Relics have a buffed perk, but, carry a (or multiple) randomized, non-descriptive (super-)debuff(s). Idea: Release mini DLC's for a fraction of standard DLC prices? Idea: Free-to-play? Paid players get the base game (Campaign, Multiplayer, old music) Free players: Get a randomized God per day, per user. Are restricted - either: Cannot build Walls or Towers Or cannot use Favor See ads* in: Main menu Post-match Winning players see more. In-game currency can be used to rent or purchase: Music (old/new) Single-player Campaign (old/new) Editor Major God Civilization Skins Taunts Monthly tournament wins shall be awarded in-game currency Daily/Weekly tasks (e.g.: Kill 10 Villagers with Locust Swarm) Gifting F2P friends Removing F2P ads* from main menu and post-match menu * Why do players tolerate ads (and questionable/pirated executables) on third-party multiplayer platforms (operated by strangers), but not the idea for the official release? Ending Note #2 Spoiler AoM is like "Bloodborne" of the "Age of" series. In Age of Mythology, Ensemble Studios intended for matches to be even aggressive* and quicker* than AoE2's as evident with: Redesigned Walls Three main resources Lowered Population cap Fewer tech-tree units Settlements Smaller maps Explanation: Redesigned Walls* meant AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are: Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls More expensive Slower to build Weaker Three general resources* meant more focus on micro-management. Lowered Population cap* meant: These were scaled for the sandbox: Resource-gathering rates Unit stats and prices: Units are worth more in stats (one reason why Villagers could fend off military units); they are not as expendable as AoE2 units and "last longer". Building stats and prices: Buildings cannot be "spammed" like in AoE2; they are fewer and must be placed wisely. Fewer units and buildings to control than AoE2's. Players must balance their Villager-military ratio. Infinite Food sources post-hunt (Farms and fishing pools). Fewer tech-tree units (and their implications). Settlements (and their implications). Smaller maps (and their implications). In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design! Fewer tech-tree units* meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter. Settlements* meant Population and Villager production had to be earned (fought over); players cannot sit comfortably within city Walls and outboom their opponent like in AoE2 or with 2TC's. Smaller maps* meant: Scouting/line-of-sight has a more prominent role. Tighter matches instead of the standard boomy longplay of AoE2. Quasi-asymmetrical design. Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (IGN - September 27, 2002) * Meant for Classical Age Fighting, not 2TC's - "AoE2 boomplay". (Post #2 - How did the expansion packs harm Norse?). All of which run contrary to what Casuals desire: https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-myth-retold/217173 Casuals want: New tech-trees ("civilizations") Removal of Settlements Rechargeable God Powers Stone Maps to become: Larger Symmetrical Revealed Increased/unlimited: Fortress allowance Tower allowance Population Villagers Why cater the game to an inflated majority who'd never touch the game again? Maybe during the weekends or the holidays? https://www.reddit.com/r/AgeofMythology/comments/ye4rda/do_you_want_to_have_autoqueue_in_age_of_mythology/ The same Casuals who'd show up at every showcasing of re-releases, gobbling content from social media, only to hibernate until the next game's re-re-release or sequels? https://steamcharts.com/app/266840 AoMEE released on May, 2014 TotD released on January, 2016 COVID lockdowns: 2020 - 2023 AoM Retold announced on October, 2022 Occasional Steam sales Even if AoM Retold were to release without: New "civilizations" (tech-trees) AoT (AQ, 2TC's free MU's, Shooting Docks...) The threats to boycotting AoM Retold will not happen because Casuals will continue to consume. Developers and Managers must know there will always be Casuals in any game. Refer to AoE2's population (nearly 10 times of AoM): AoE2: https://steamcharts.com/app/813780 AoMEE: https://steamcharts.com/app/266840 Are all 25k players like Viper? Yet, 10,000 AoE2 Casuals did not find it difficult to memorize "Ctrl & 1" for grouping or "Q" for Hoplites! The reason why AoM is filled with Casuals is not because it is a Casual's game. It is because The Titans Expansion Pack (and free God Powers) punish you for your: Efforts (practicing, BO crafting) Risk-taking/creativity (micro-managing outside of the established macro-meta set by (free GP's and) AoT) Aggressive play And reward you for picking the few, right choices: Pick any one top Major Gods (of the current macro-meta) TheMista interview (2015). 2TC TheMista interview (2015). Advance to Heroic age Lame Win Repeat! Those who have played enough high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy games know there is a glass ceiling. The diversity of choices is an illusion for 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy games. There is only one way to play this game. And AoT Pros know it. Though they deny it, it is evident by their silent retirements or taking a break from the game (indefinitely). Why? Because there is no one else to play with besides the same abuser smurfs! With free MU's(/GP's) setting the tone of the game, With 2TC's acting like mini-fortresses for map control, With Villagers streamlining from 2TC's like a factory, With AQ automating all individual tasks, Of course, "The game plays by itself"™! In other words, what got boomy Casuals to become AoT Pros in the first place is the same reason why they stopped playing the game! (Regardless of new maps, mods, or balance™ patches!) Burnout? No, burned out of players. History repeats itself! Is it any wonder why high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy dwindled following the release of the expansion pack after catering to Casuals first, then boomier civilizations? Why AoT is saturated with Casuals and boomy Mains - with mods and team games? You can spend hours crafting the perfect BO or practicing against Titan Attacker AI, but the reality of the "meta" (macro-meta) is this: The game simply does not reward effort (practicing, time spent on creating a BO) or skill. There is only one way to play this game. TheMista interview (2015). Quote AoT is a gigantic, glorified mod-ification to the original game-design in order to onboard new players. However, it obliterated fair play for any who did not operate within the spectrum of its new features' macro-meta, promoting a peculiar playstyle - just YouTube any "Age of Mythology tournament" video. Source: Post #2 - FAQ #2 - "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" Any fresh or open-minded players see these grievances very clearly; they are the middle-class players, not bound by low standards (Casuals) or nostalgia (AoT Pros (2TC boomy Mains)). They clearly see, that no matter how much effort they put into the game, they will not be rewarded. No wonder why AoT fails to maintain a healthy high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy population! What could have been interesting plays and innovative breakthroughs were all used to be determined by how fast a player could respond to and prioritize each scenario, making for exquisite matchups and interesting replays. Now? Everything is automated, the same games at the top level. But, if Managers/Developers were to remove free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, high-hunt maps, Atlanteans, and Titans, then those middle-class players would see that the more effort they put into the game, the more improvement they will gain. Because, they can improve their APM; they can try different strategies (risk taking); they can play, knowing they wouldn't be denied by some "cheap" GP or 2TC machine automation; they can create unique Build Orders; THEY CAN LEARN HOW TO USE HOTKEYS. Free the players! Let the players work for their matches! Let their micro-management be the determining factor of their winning or losing! It will create for genuine and unique games, not cookie-cutter "choose your counter-civ, God Power chess, and press AQ 2TC auto-pilot outboom" banality! Allow "Real-Time" back into RTS for AoM. Spoiler TheMista interview (2015). TheMista interview (2010). FAQ #1 FAQ #1 - Table of Contents "How many Age of Mythology games are there?" "How many multiplayer platforms are there?"/"Is the Open Letter outdated?" Spoiler "How many Age of Mythology games are there?" PC: Ensemble Studios: 2002: Age of Mythology Introduced imbalanced mechanics: Free GP's 2003: Age of Mythology: The Titans (expansion pack) Introduced imbalanced mechanics: Free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Titans Introduced a new "civilization" (tech-tree): Atlanteans Skybox Labs: 2014: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition Although built on The Titans, it introduced: A new unit to each civilization to balance their intended weakness (civilization identity) Laggy Multiplayer (because of either Steam's dedicated-servers or P2P, per regional matchup) Spoiler Steam Settings In-Game Steam Networking: "Default" (do not select if laggy): Automatic switching between "Always" and "Never" "Always": Always connect to Steam's dedicated-servers "Never": Never connect to Steam's dedicated-servers https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/1433-AD20-F11D-B71E I.e.: While some players may benefit with one setting, others may need to switch settings every few games, depending on their (opponent's) region. Regressed textures overhaul (water, landscape, trees, etc.) Bloated graphical features; degraded performance (even when disabled - compared to the original game) Broken AI (easier to fight against) "Broken" Campaign (easier to complete from: unit-pathing, triggers, AI, etc.) Skybox Labs, and Forgotten Empires: 2015: Age of Mythology EX: Tale of the Dragon (expansion pack) Introduced a new "civilization" (tech-tree): Chinese Board game: Eagle Games: 2003: Age of Mythology: The Boardgame Nintendo DS: Griptonite Games: 2008: Age of Empires: Mythologies "How many multiplayer platforms are there?"/"Is the Open Letter outdated?" There are three main platforms for AoT multiplayer after Microsoft shut down AoM's ESO (Ensemble Studios Online) servers in 2010: Gameranger: Balance™ maintained by: None (The Titans Patch 1.03) The epitome of imbalance from the core mechanics introduced by The Titans expansion pack. Consequences: The game plays by itself (macro-meta). There is only one way to play the game (micro-meta and macro-meta). Demographics: Casual > competitive Few 1v1's, mainly team games, mainly mods Population: 100 - 300 online during peak hours? Lobby system (peer-to-peer connection) Requirements: Gameranger client 1.03 crack (.exe) The Titans Patch 1.03 AoT CD key Voobly: Balance™ maintained by: Dedicated balance™ team https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/showtopic=242441 Seeking balance from TT 1.03 by: Moderately equalizing all "civilizations" (tech-trees) and liberally buffing unpopular gods. Consequences: The game still plays by itself (macro-meta). Susceptibility to (rotational) balance™ patches (which creates the illusion that the game is "unsolved"/"balanced™" with the variety of new tactics made available by adjusted stats (for the current playerbase) - micro-meta - masking the imbalances of the macro-meta (of the core mechanics of The Titans)). (Official, fan-made) "Random" maps of near-symmetry. Unpopular Major/Minor Gods of The Titans Patch 1.03 receive unnecessarily powerful GP's and perks (which made other Major/Minor Gods unpopular). Demographics: Competitive > casual Mainly 1v1's, some team games, some mods Population: https://www.voobly.com/games/view/Age-of-Mythology-The-Titans Lobby system (peer-to-peer connection) Ratings system Requirements: Voobly client AoT CD key Steam: Balance™ maintained by: The current maintainers of AoMEE (undedicated) https://meta-plays.com/forums/topic/1426-ee-patch-28-most-complete-and-correct-changelog/ Seeking balance from TT 1.03 by: Liberally equalizing all "civilizations" (tech-trees) and moderately buffing unpopular gods. Consequences: The game still plays by itself (macro-meta). Susceptibility to (rotational) balance™ patches (which creates the illusion that the game is "unsolved"/"balanced™" with the variety of new tactics made available by adjusted stats (for the current playerbase) - micro-meta - masking the imbalances of the macro-meta (of the core mechanics of The Titans)). Resource-equity "random" maps. "Civilizations" (tech-trees) lose a part of their identity with the introduction of units designed to supplement their intended weakness. Demographics: Casual > competitive Mainly 1v1's, some team games, some mods Population: https://steamcharts.com/app/266840 Lobby system: Based off of ESO (dedicated Steam servers or peer-to-peer connection): (Poor) Lobby system Ratings system Matchmaking system Requirements: Steam client AoMEE (DLC is not required to play with DLC players) Spoiler Obsolete since early 2023 due to Voobly's new ratings system. The conversion of real-ratings between Steam and Voobly is variable as Steam's deflate during the weekends or holidays (excluding high-ranked rr). https://imgur.com/a/V21HOVb https://www.reddit.com/r/AgeofMythology/comments/bb2n78/converting_ratings_between_platforms/ Edit History History of major edits Spoiler 1.01 (1/14/23) Removal: original title: An Open Letter to AoM Managers and Developers Regarding 1v1 High-Ranked Competitive Aom | Explanation: new title: An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM 1.02 (1/15/23) Removal: FAQ "Funny" things | Explanation: Brevity 1.03 (1/19/23) Section 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's 1.04 (3/4/23) Section 1.0 - AQ: further explanained December 2023 Removal: | Explanation: Brevity January 2024 portions moved to Post #2 - Section Miscellaneous 1.05 (3/15/23) Section 1.0's ending note December 2023 Removal: | Explanation: Brevity 1.06 (3/26/23) Section 2.2 - Free units tweaks: additions 1.07 (3/30/23) Post #2 Section FAQ #2: additions 1.08 (4/29/23) Section 1.0 - AQ's "strategy" explanation December 2023 Removal: | Explanation: Brevity January 2024 portions moved to Post #2 - Section Miscellaneous 1.09 (5/7/23) Section 1.0 - AQ's ending note 7/7/23 Removal: Section 1.0 - AQ's ending note | Explanation: Brevity Removal: Norse Tweaking (originally Section 2.4) | Explanation: Tech-trees ("civilizations") must have their identities 1.10 (5/24/23) Removal: Age of Empires Forums introduction | Explanation: Brevity 1.11 (6/14/23) Section 1.0's Norse explanations moved to Post #2 - Section Miscellaneous 1.12 (8/6/23) Section 2.3 - Water tweaking: Water's macro-meta alternative 1.13 (8/11/23) Section FAQ #1 split: Section FAQ #2 1.14 (9/4/23) Section 1.0 - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue: Condensed version (beginning) 12/26/23 Removal: Explanation: Brevity 1.15 (10/8/23) Post #2 - Section FAQ #2 - "Can't there be a compromise?": additions Author's note: Otherwise, there is no point in following these suggestions. 1.16 (11/19/23) Chess introduction moved to Post #2 - Section Miscellaneous January 2024 Removal | Explanation: The image could be interpreted as antagonistic to AoM's asymmetrical design. 1.17 (12/26/23) Section 1.0 - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue - 3. On prioritization 1.18 (12/28/23) (Three items): Table of Contents re-arranged 1/3/2024 Reverted 2/25/2024 3/23/2024 4/24/2024 5/11/2024 5/12/2024 Section 1.1 On Feedback renamed and re-edited: Section Ending Note #1 - The macro-meta Section Conclusion renamed: Section Ending Note #2 1.19 (12/30/23) (Two items) Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas renamed: Section 3.3 Miscellaneous ideas Section 3.2 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future June 27, 2024 Moved to: Post #2 1.20 (1/16/24) Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking: Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Re-sectioned: Section 2.4 Wall tweaking Section 2.5 Telegraphing tweaking 1.21 (2/17/24) Section 1.0 - 2TC's - The kernel February 25, 2024 Moved to: Post #2 - Section Miscellaneous February 27, 2024 Additions in Section 1.0's 2TC's section June 27, 2024 Renamed: Norse and maps Merged: Post #2 - How did the expansion packs harm Norse? 1.22 (5/10/24) Section 1.0 - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue - 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention 1.23 (7/16/24) Section 2.0 God Powers tweaking - Section 2.0c Idea 3: No changes Minor edits/additions 7/16/2024 Post #2 "How did the expansion packs harm Norse?" "So how did the expansion packs harm Norse?" Note: Edits and additions Note: Motivation of the Open Letter. 6/27/2024 Post #2 FAQ #2 On Random Maps Note: Supplemental reading for Post #1's Section 2TC's; the long-term effects of nearly-symmetrical map design. 6/19/2024 Section 1 AQ - 1. Bullet points Note: AQ further explained Post #2 FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" "Simple: Just leave AQ disabled for Ranked and enabled for the rest". Note: Leaving AQ in the base game has consequences for everyone. Note: Instead, Casuals will play casually; they'll download their fan-made AQ mod-ification for themselves and their friends. 1. "Why can't you see that Developers need money to create the game?" "Developers need money to run the servers and create new content, so, if the game is not accessible to new players, it will die". Note: The monetary system of single-purchases will not support the game, as evident with AoMEE. Note: AoT, with all its glory and "accessibility" features, could not keep a thriving population; reach is not retention. "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" Note: AoT's history of accessibility and the Open Letter's purpose. History of some additions/edits Spoiler 7/22/2024 Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Idea: "Jungling"? https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Jungling 7/21/2024 Section 2.3 Water tweaking And based from the other "lost" articles/videos, the implementation of the current ship units was perhaps a last-minute job. 7/19/2024 Section 2.1 Favor tweaking Advancing requires Favor: Remove Favor costs from Wonders and Fortresses TC's include a 5 Favor cost 7/17/2024 Section 2.0 God Powers tweaking Section 2.0c Idea 3: No changes The Author's GP balance™ ideas: 7/16/2024 Section 2.0 God Powers tweaking Section 2.0c Idea 3: No changes Post #2 "So how did the expansion packs harm Norse" "How did the expansion packs harm Norse" Regarding boomers who refuse to leave their TC bases (the meta), 7/15/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Heroic Age GP's cost: 2 minutes Mythic Age GP's cost: 2 minutes and 45 seconds, 35 Favor 6/27/2024 Post #2 Section Miscellaneous On Random Maps 6/24/2024 2.0 God Powers tweaking introduction Ensemble Studios GP idea #2: 6/19/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT Shooting Docks Water feinting (to mislead the opponent into overproducing military ships) Post #2 Section Miscellaneous FAQ #2 "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers who gatekept the game's accessibility?" 6/18/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ 1. Bullet points Re-edited Section Sources Influenced by brownbear: Post #2 Section Miscellaneous "Where is the "strategy" of RTS in keypressing every X seconds?" FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" "Simple: Just leave AQ disabled for Ranked and enabled for the rest". There is a consequential difference between "developers implementing a game-breaking feature into the base game designed without it" versus 2. "Why can't you see that games must evolve to attract new players?" "Developers need money to run the servers and create new content, so, if the game is not accessible to new players, it will die". 6/15/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ 1. Bullet points Re-edited 6/6/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Myth Unit Garrisoning 5/23/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ 2. Designed around attention Too often are Players using their past experiences or understanding of Blizzard's RTS's* to redefine this game and especially the RTS genre. Section Ending Note #2 Lowered population cap * Meant for Classical Age fighting, not 2TC AoE2 play. 5/22/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT 2TC's Adding 2TC's to AoM is like adding sprinting to First-Person Shooters designed without it... 5/18/2024 Section Definitions ii Critical definitions Re-edited Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ 1. Bullet points Adding AQ to RTS's is like adding auto-aiming to First-Person Shooters... 5/13/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Set animals deal MU damage 5/6/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Completed Town Centers should not be updated in Fog of War 5/5/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ Quantic Foundry's video on cognitive threshold History of some additions since January 2024 Spoiler 5/4/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ: CloudCuckooCountry's video on prioritization brownbear's video on AQ Re-edited sections 4/29/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Free Egyptian buildings cost 5 Gold 4/16/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Shifting Sands halved Transport area Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Temples have smaller surface-area 3/16/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Relics re-edited 2/27/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT Free MU's Locks the macro-meta Consider: 2TC's Re-edited with the "kernel" 2/17/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Temples have lowered HP 2/16/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Hall of Thanes Speed Herdable Line of Sight 2/15/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Serpents Minions (13): 19 Fimbulwinter Wolves (9): 16 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Relics Section 3.3 Miscellaneous ideas: Idea: Cursed Relics? 2/14/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Fimbulwinter Wolves (9): 17 2/9/2024 Section 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) But in AoM, "civilization" design is not merely determined by uniqueness alone. 2/8/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT: 2TC's: 2TC's unlock economy and map control for the second Age. Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Ragnarok Idea 1: Villager-based Idea 2: Ulfsark-based Section 2.2 Free tweaking Hades Shades Last 20 seconds Section 3.2 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future: Wall HP should not be affected by adjacent Walls 2/7/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT: 2TC's: Punish aggressors. Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Ragnarok HP (120): 65 Population (3): 2 Section 2.4 Wall tweaking Idea: Remove Wall's shared damage? Section 3.2 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future Infantry should not run as fast as Cavalry Hall of Thanes give 1.15x boost in speed (instead of +1.1 speed). 2/4/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Ragnarok HP (120): 80 Damage (11): 8 Speed (4.80): 4.60 2/1/2024 Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Transport units are larger Section 3.2 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future Garrison/transport capacity determined by unit-count 1/29/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Ceasefire Town Centers cannot be built during Ceasefire. 1/24/2024 Section Ending Note #2 re-arranged Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Cavalry Garrisoning History of some additions since November 2023 Spoiler 1/21/2024 Section 3.2 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future: Health regeneration Buffed Relics 1/16/2024 Section 2.5 Telegraphing tweaking Edit F7 to not show unused God Powers Lower non-ranged buildings' Line of Sight Section 2.6 Miscellaneous tweaking Priests can pick up Relics Further explanation 1/15/2024 Section 3.3 Miscellaneous ideas: Idea: Add a DLC themed around Erebus, Underworld, and Hel? 1/14/2024 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT: While reading, the reader should consider: And regarding why Ensemble Studios included these features, Section 1.1 Ending Note #1 (higher-ranked): Bobby Fischer (American chess grandmaster, 11th World Chess Champion) explaining chess' macro-meta. 1/10/2024 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Ragnarok Unit type (Hero): Human Name (Hero of Ragnarok): Warrior of Ragnarok 1/3/2024 Section FAQ #2 "What separates AoM from AoE?" 1/1/2024 Section FAQ #2 "Why should Managers/Developers alienate the core community?" 12/30/2023 Section 3.2 Balancing and the future When "patches" have exceeded their capacity to mend the tears of AQ/2TC, do "patches" begin to extend beyond balancing™. 12/29/2023 Section 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) But: Are AoM Managers/Developers aware that a "civilization"/variations system like Age of Empires' already exists in AoM? 12/28/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT: 2TC'S That is why AoT players are so sensitive to fog of war and especially (Vanilla) map randomization. Section 1.1 Ending Note #1 All of these features were intentionally implemented by Ensemble Studios with express purpose...: 12/26/2023 Section Definitions Micro-meta and macro-meta image definitions Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT: AQ Bullet points Prioritization Section FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" Other bad ideas: Bad idea: AQ production-speed is scaled to a Player's rank. Bad idea: Free-queuing (Soft-AQ: Players can queue a unit without paying its cost). 12/4/2023 Section FAQ #2 "We don't need to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Atlanteans, Titans, or maps - the game is already balanced - haven't you seen the statistics?" 11/30/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT 2TC'S With map control and streaming resources, the potential has been unlocked - that is why AoT players don't mind: 11/29/2023 Section Conclusion Lowered Population cap meant: In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design! Fewer "civilization" (tech-tree) units meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter. Section FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" Other bad ideas: Bad idea: Units created under AQ are produced slower. History of some additions since September 2023 Spoiler 11/27/2023 Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Wall redzoning alternative - idea: Moved to section Bad Ideas Hp-damaging area-of-effect GP's deal full damage to friendly units'/buildings' HP This would punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b). 11/19/2023 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Lure: 1,500 Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Wall redzoning alternative - idea: Wall-connectors and Short Wall-segments are always 50 HP, regardless of upgrades. Remove the announcement for This allows for new tactics due to... God-Power announcements punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched... Players can always F7 to scout. (Re-added) 10/21/2023 Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Researching God Powers are announced and cancelled GP's have a cooldown penalty Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Idea: Create an epic campaign, highlighting the imbalances of AoT's epic core mechanics. Idea: Make a new Campaign as a Multiplayer tutorial for high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy without Age of Free Insurance™: 10/17/2023 Topic locked by Age of Empires forums 10/15/2023 Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Wall redzoning alternative - idea: Walls shorter than the standard/longest Wall-segment have significantly lower HP. Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Idea: Free-to-play? * Why do players tolerate ads (and piracy) on third-party multiplayer platforms, but not for the official servers? Section FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" Other bad ideas: Bad idea: Atlanteans, Chinese, and new "civilizations" (tech-trees) are locked behind ratings. 10/8/2023 Section FAQ #2 "Can't there be a compromise?" Regarding the addition of AQ to any non-ranked matches... Section Conclusion AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are: Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls 10/7/2023 Section 2.1 Free units tweaking Regarding free military Loki's Mu-spawns Duration (re-added) Section Conclusion Lowered Population cap meant: Population becomes a "resource":... Prices of buildings/units were also scaled for this sandbox. Smaller maps (and their implications). 9/20/2023 Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Lure: 2,100 Great Hunt: 900 9/18/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT 2TC'S "Retards match micro-meta, as players can..." "Hastens match macro-meta, allowing players to..." AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue Third section "By 'standardizing' unit production timings, AQ also allows build orders to be copied..." Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Lure: 2,750 Prosperity: 1.9x 9/12/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue First section Re-edited 9/10/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue First section Re-edited 9/9/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue Re-edited Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Add 1 Wall-connector distance redzoning to these buildings Explained 9/8/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue Re-edited Section 2.4 Remove announcement for: Remove the announcement for: Completed Advancings Completed God Power research Completed Town Centers Garrisoned Relics 9/7/2023 Section FAQ #1 "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" Re-edited Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue Re-edited Section 2.1 Free units tweaking Regarding free military "As an unintended bonus for the time limit..." (re-added) Loki's Mu-spawns Private features (re-added) Section 2.3 Water tweaking Spoiler section: The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. Water's macro-meta alternative Explanation Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Add 1 Wall-connector distance redzoning to these buildings Re-edited 9/6/2023 Section FAQ #1 "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" "Due to the increased requirements of..." Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ section Spoiler section (re-edited) "If 2TC's turned AoT into a 'spiritual successor' of AoE2..." Section Conclusion Smaller maps Line-of-Sight/scouting has more prominence Section FAQ #2 "What if nobody buys this game because Managers/Developers applied this letter's suggestions?" 9/5/2023 Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT 2TC Re-edited AQ section Spoiler section (re-edited) 9/4/2023 Section FAQ #1 "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" "Consider: What if Microsoft introduced those features into AoE2?" "Gameplay-wise, free God Powers and 'The Titans'' core mechanics..." Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT AQ section Spoiler section (first) Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Nidhogg Removed Section 2.3 Water tweaking Spoiler section: The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. Add Water Myth Units for every Minor God? Remove Water Myth Units from every Minor God? Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas Free players see ads post-match and in the main menu In-game currency can be spent to remove ads from post-match and the main menu 9/2/2023 Section FAQ #1 "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" Re-edited Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) Bolt Ox Carts and transport units re-added Section 2.2 Free units tweaking Regarding free scouting Hippocampus Idea 3: No changes Section 2.3 Water tweaking Shooting Docks as a researchable Tech in Heroic Age? Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking Remove announcement for: Garrisoned Relics God Power Invocations Remove F4 Section 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees) Reorganized Section 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative Reorganized Sources Spoiler Influenced by works of brownbear/Parfait/P3N3M4 (https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Parfait, https://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,36052,0,10): https://www.illiteracyhasdownsides.com/p/on-autoqueue-for-macromanagement https://www.illiteracyhasdownsides.com/p/starcraft-iis-most-persistent-misunderstanding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0IujCi7leA Age of Mythology: Volume II (2002) http://archive.gamespy.com/devdiary/august02/aom2 Age of Mythology: Volume III (2002) http://archive.gamespy.com/devdiary/september02/aom3/index2.shtml Maps of Mythology (2002) https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/27/maps-of-mythology INTERVIEW WITH SOUP (2009) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?s=428ee2657f29a7d44998c1336814849f&portal=AOM&showtopic=128850 Interview with mG_TheMista (2010) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?s=428ee2657f29a7d44998c1336814849f&portal=AOM&showtopic=186108 CENSORED SINCE JANUARY 9, 2023 Spoiler AQ Removal Yes/No (2013) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=226742 Registration required to view since January 9, 2023. (Topic created by: TheMista). Which studio (now) owns RTS-Sanctuary? Which studio also works on AoM Retold? Why is AOE2 more popular than AOM? (2014) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=231170 Interview with TheMista (2015) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/showtopic=235604 GAMER MOTIVATION PROFILE (2016) quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Gamer-Motivation-Profile-GDC-2016-Slides.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvaBpfsl1A&t=1195s Should I retire? (2022) https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/RTS-Sanctuary/showtopic=250066 AOE FORMUS THREAD LOCKED SINCE OCTOBER 17, 2023 Spoiler An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM (2023) https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/an-open-letter-to-aom-managers-developers-on-how-to-save-competitive-aom The latest replies were also deleted, while other, repetitive topics/replies (from the same users) were tolerated. Usage Rate CL Season 3 (2023) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EJoCPcl41PIjG5Co8GbUeTCYM8TQpb92kuMT25dNcUc/ The features introduced in AoT essentially removed player effort from the game. Quote AoT is a gigantic, glorified mod-ification to the original game-design in order to onboard new players... promoting a peculiar playstyle.... Source: Post #2 - FAQ #2 - "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" AQ simply highlights the imbalances of The Titans expansion pack. It only "mines" the meta. And for that, I am grateful Ensemble Studios had included AQ into AoT, because the macro-meta is clearly undeniable. The reader can: Follow their gatekeepers and let the game rot from the same, core ideas plaguing the playerbase (AoT). Or allow for a game that rests solely on the player to make the best, prioritized decisions on a small, randomized map - an organic RTS. AoT players: We've been waiting for "Age of Mythology" for over [0] years! AoM players: We've been waiting for Age of Mythology for over 2 decades. January 13, 2023 Edited Monday at 09:08 AM by IAmNotIronMaiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotIronMaiden Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Reserved 1 Post #2 MISCELLANEOUS Table of contents FAQ #2 On Random Maps "How did the expansion packs harm Norse?" FAQ #3 "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future On smurfing FAQ #2 Table of contents "Where is the 'strategy' of RTS in keypressing every X seconds?" "Can't there be a compromise?" "Why should Casuals have to suffer for competitive players' sake?" "Why don't you go back to AoE2 or SC2?" 1. "Why can't you see that Developers need money to create the game?" 2. "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?" 3. "Why can't you see that games must evolve to attract new players?" 4. "Why should Managers/Developers alienate the core community?" "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" "Aren't maps just maps?" "Wasn't the 2002 AoM competitive scene not good?" "What if your suggestions create even more imbalances?" Spoiler "Where is the 'strategy' of RTS in keypressing every X seconds?" "Real-time Strategy" is an ambiguous title somebody slapped onto the genre. Consider: Who coined the term, "RTS"? And what were the circumstances regarding that time/event? Is football also Real-time Strategy? Players move in real-time and can make strategic decisions along the way. How obvious is the classification of RTS when compared to something like "First-person Shooter"? Can "Fornite Battle Royale" be considered a Multiplayer Online Battle Arena? Quote If "strategy" (military) could be described as long-term, abstract, planning, and "tactics" (military) as short-term, concrete, performing, then "Real-Time Tactics" is a more suitable title for the genre of RTS. Source: Post #1 - Section 1.0 - Remove everything of AoT - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue - 5. AQ Dump Quote If a Player forgets to queue units during an intense battle, is that not an opportunity to exploit them then and after? Source: Post #1 - Section 1.0 - Remove everything of AoT - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue - 1. Bullet points RTS games are not City-builder Simulators nor real life. "Can't there be a compromise?" "Simple: Just leave AQ disabled for Ranked and enabled for the rest". There is a consequential difference between "developers implementing a game-breaking feature into the base game designed without it" versus "fans modding it into the game for themselves/friends". February 25, 2024 - https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/remove-auto-queue-in-the-remaster/249320/9 "Casuals" and "beginners" are not the same; and although most beginners tend to also be Casuals, most Casuals are not beginners. Consider "beginners" as potential participants for the (1v1 competitive) multiplayer of the original design. Failure/experience (and recorded games) is one of the best tutorial/teacher (Casual) RTS never had. ... Regarding the addition of AQ to any non-ranked matches, it will surely foster a destructive path similar to what AoT had sown. History will repeat itself. There will be no "split" community, only the illusion of two, separate populations: One, of automated/inorganic gameplay, the gargantuan of the two, and also serves as a gatekeeper to enslave new players to an automated/"dead"/"same" macro-meta. Other bad ideas: Bad idea: AQ is removed from ranked matches upon reaching a mid-low rating. Explanation: This may backfire as removing the crutch (AQ) may result in a tsunami of match-losses/decision-anxiety for lower-rating players, eventually leading them to quit or complain on pushing the AQ bar higher. This also sets new players up for failure because they have not developed familiarity of controls, like toddlers given strollers instead of the autonomy to fall/stand. Bad idea: Units created under AQ are produced slower. Explanation: The game will still play by itself, especially in mid-to-late games or Deathmatch (as either have more buildings to manage). Bad idea: AQ production-speed is scaled to a Player's rank. Explanation: Consider: At what rank will AQ be removed? Read the above explanations. Bad idea: Free-queuing/Soft-AQ: Unit queues can be reserved without paying their costs. Explanation: Bad idea: Atlanteans, Chinese, and new civilizations are unlockable upon reaching a higher rating. Explanation: Please read Post #1 - Section 3.0 regarding new "civilizations" (tech-trees). "Why should Casuals have to suffer for competitive players' sake?" Why is there even a ratings system? How can 10,000 AoE2 Casuals learn hotkeys, but not AoT's Casuals? https://steamcharts.com/app/813780 https://steamcharts.com/app/266840 Why should those who practice the game have to suffer for AoT Casuals' sake? "Why don't you go back to AoE2 or SC2?" No. You are the ones turning AoM into: Age of Empires 2: Boomy longplay: 2TC-AQ meta Boomer Defense Simulator: Wall-connectors for Docks/Fortresses/Towers/Wonders because of: Free MU's (Free GP's) "One tech-tree" balance: "Civilizations" (tech-trees) lose their identities: Voobly: E.g.: Throwing Axemen's Range via Infantry-line uprades. AoMEE: A new unit to each civilization to balance their intended weakness. Starcraft 2: Cheese BO's: Free MU's (Free GP's) (")Revealed(") maps: Free MU's. (")Symmetrical(") maps: Voobly's official fan-mod maps. AoMEE's resource-equity maps. Gameplay of intensive microing due to a simplified economy: Atlanteans AQ 1. "Why can't you see that Developers need money to create the game?" 2. "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?" 3. "Why can't you see that games must evolve to attract new players?" 4. "Why should Managers/Developers alienate the core community?" Part 1/4 "Developers need money to run the servers and create new content, so, if the game is not accessible to new players, it will die". "Developers need money to run the servers and create new content" Buying a single $40 copy or several discounted $40 copies from Steam sales will definitely support "'developers'". Just look at AoMEE, with its acclaimed expansion pack and the routine maintenance towards game balancing™ and fixing the netcode. Also, over time, Casuals/outsiders will sporadically purchase the game, once. What a stable way to fund supposed "costs". Publishers (and managers), not "'developers'", handle the deals, costs, and what to create. That is why AoM is long overdue for: Game Passes Micro-transactions Advertisements for Free-to-Play users Microsoft is a business first and foremost. Because: The alternative is to dumb down the game to reach (not "retain") a broader audience, forever damning the core gameplay. Spoiler Source: FAQ #2 - "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?" "... if the game is not accessible to new players, it will die" The following blackmail wordplays can also be used: If FIFA doesn't extend goal posts, football will die. If NBA doesn't lower the rim, basketball will die. If CS:GO doesn't include sprint, the game will die. The threats to boycotting AoM Retold will not happen because Casuals will continue to consume. Developers and Managers must know there will always be Casuals in any game. Refer to AoE2's population (nearly 10 times of AoM):... Are all 25k players like Viper? Yet, 10,000 AoE2 Casuals did not find it difficult to memorize "Ctrl & 1" for grouping or "Q" for Hoplites! Source: Post #1 - Ending Note #2 And, the irony: AoT players already have those "accessibility" features for more than 20 years. And still, they have yet to retain a larger playerbase or even their own. So much for "accessibility". Therefore, "accessibility" is clearly not what AoT players want. Instead, they are desiring the same thing as Vanilla players: A sizable playerbase. I wonder why. Please read Section 1 - Remove AoT - regarding the consequences of each of its features. "No, the game was gatekept by the publishers; AoT's features didn't harm the population". See the next sub-section: "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" ... Part 2/4 "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?" RTS games are not dead. Games are "dead" because they do not make enough money for publishers. https://www.techspot.com/news/100833-former-blizzard-worker-reveals-celestial-steed-microtransaction-wow.html Spoiler Age of Mythology is not dead. Age of Mythology is "dead" because it does not make enough money for Microsoft. Consider: Why were SC2 (in the 2010's), DOTA, League of Legends, Fortnite, Apex, Valorant, Genshin, etc. populated? Themes: Free to Play Aggressive marketing Word of mouth Micro-transactions You and your friends' Steam sale bulk-purchases won't even pay for 1 second of advertisment on YouTube. That is why AoM is long overdue for: Game Passes* Micro-transactions* Advertisements for Free-to-Play users** * You don't have to buy them. ** Why the double standard for Microsoft? Microsoft is a business first and foremost. Because: The alternative is to dumb down the game to reach (not "retain") a broader audience, forever damning the core gameplay. ... Part 3/4 "Why can't you see that games must evolve to attract new players?" "But, removing this feature will cause others to..." "But, others will not buy the game if..." And those are exactly the types of players who would not even bother to learn the simplest of tasks, like, control-grouping (Ctrl + 1). They are the types who would dip their toes in the campaign and team games before going back to their other games. They would not even form the core of the community.*** Spoiler TheAchronic (February 15, 2024) - https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/poll-are-you-in-favor-of-auto-queue-villagers-on-pc-toggle-can-turn-on-off/248887/17 Quote "Casuals" and "beginners" are not the same; and although most beginners tend to also be Casuals, most Casuals are not beginners. Consider "beginners" as potential participants for the (1v1 competitive) multiplayer of the original design. Failure/experience (and recorded games) is one of the best tutorial/teacher (Casual) RTS never had. Source: FAQ #2 - Can't there be a compromise? ... Part 4/4 "Why should Managers/Developers alienate the core community?" https://old.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/17bd6c8/unpopular_opinion_autoqueue_is_good_for_the_game/ Polls: https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/16dkz4c/would_you_like_villager_autoqueue_in_aoe4_pc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/xuwjao/autoqueue_units_yes_or_no/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/rs0vx8/enable_auto_vill_production_to_focus_more_one/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/1aqrapq/poll_are_you_in_favor_of_auto_queue_villagers_on/ Who is the core community again? The reason behind AoT's heavy sentiments is because its current (leftover) population is consisted of those spoiled by its mechanics (Casuals) and those who enjoy their status-quo (2TC boomy mains). AoT was never the core community. They are the leftover dregs of the AoM exodus. They are the byproduct of a failed experiment of Ensemble Studios, who dumbed down a quality game with Casual mechanics to please sales quotas AND TO REACH A BROADER AUDIENCE. History repeats itself. Refer to Post #1 - Section 3.3 regarding monetization ideas. *** Spoiler You would damn the core players, those who actually practice the game, so that the game could "evolve"/"modernize"/"adapt"/"innovate" for the sake of a few who would linger off sooner or later? While labeling the former as "elitists"...? If you cannot even comprehend the brilliance behind that notion, allow me to explain: You are an unwitting (corporate) dog for publishers who have long mismanaged their franchises (with third-rate developers and fan modders)* for the sake of profits. * While using the resumé hoppers as shields for the flak. Quote The threats to boycotting AoM Retold will not happen because Casuals will continue to consume. Developers and Managers must know there will always be Casuals in any game. Refer to AoE2's population (nearly 10 times of AoM): (From Post #1 - Section Ending Note #2). Quote That is why AoM is long overdue for: Game Passes Micro-transactions Advertisements for Free-to-Play users Quote Because: The alternative is to dumb down the game to reach (not "retain") a broader audience, forever damning the core gameplay. Spoiler ***** Death of an RTS - flowchart: Casuals/outsiders/modders: "RTS games are too hard". Publisher makes the game easier.* Pro Players play even better because everything is simplified.* "Still too hard"/"Sweaty Esports"/"Toxic".* Publisher makes the game even easier.* Middle-class Players leave for more challenging experiences. Casuals play their weekend city-builder-sim and finally leave. (Modders stay to continue the dumpster-fire of a game (and be hired as "developers")). Also, Casuals: "Why is the game/RTS dead?" Proceed to migrate to another traditional (i.e.: Populated) RTS to destroy it***** and complain about [Blizzard RTS]'s game-mechanics*. Deviating from RTS's core-gameplay to appease non-committed players will inevitably end up with Steps 3 and 4. The ironies. * Games of hyper-reaction, muscle-memory, and perfectionism due to: Symmetrical maps, revealed maps, and a simplified economy. "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" Publishers: Ubisoft: In the late 2000's, purchasers of AoT Gold Edition cannot play online because they were given "re-used" CD keys. Solution: Request a unique CD key from Ubisoft. However, many did not browse AoM Heaven forums. Microsoft: Around late 2010, Ensemble Studios Online was "shut down". Solution: Gameranger and Voobly. However, many simply stopped at the Main Menu or didn't YouTube for tutorials. Further accessibility issues: CD/DVD readers were no longer the standard. Piracy hurdles: Malware Which source to download from Torrenting knowledge Which torrenting program to install Folder location knowledge Download speeds Installation hurdles: Extracting/unzipping archive Windows XP/7 does not support .rar Which archive software to install How to unzip an archive Mounting .iso files Windows XP/7 does not support .iso Which disc-mounting software to install How to mount CD 1 Graphics problems Renaming file names Multiplayer hurdles: Google Translate No-CD Crack: Crack 1.03 (AoM) or Crack 1.03 (AoT)? Which folder to apply Patch: Patch 1.03 (AoM) or Patch 1.03 (AoT)? Not applying the crack after patching. "But I installed AoT patch 1.03!" *Kicked from lobby* Game-design schisms: AoT (2003): Developer: Ensemble Studios Consequence: Casuals ("consumers") flock to "expansion" packs because, "Latest means greatest". Those who preferred playing AoE2 boomplay (2TC's) or the new cheese civ (Atlanteans) stayed in AoT. Voobly (2013): RTS-Sanctuary players, dissatisfied with the decade-old bugs and meta, created their own balance patches. Consequence: Gameranger players remained with Patch 1.03. AoMEE (2014): Developer: Third-party Consequence: Built upon AoT and introduced a new meta with: A new unit to each civilization to balance their weaknesses intended by Ensemble Studios. Map resources were evenly distributed. "Quickmatch" button is not obvious, "gatekeeping" many to the Lobby (custom-games room). Players would have to wait for players to join their room. Players are not match-maked with others near their rating. Players may believe the game is "dead" from the Lobby counter. Network lag and performance issues (and regressed/"ugly" textures/visuals). Players may believe the original games run as such and therefore might not give Gameranger or Voobly a try. AoM Retold (2024): Developer: Third-party Consequence: Standardization™ from listening to pro players (2TC boomy mains) E.g.: Civilizations lose their identities: Norse Villagers can build. Xbox Games Showcase Deep Dives | Ara: History Untold & Age of Mythology: Retold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi6WEWn51H4&t=2678s Red female Gatherer, south-west of the TC. Speculations (December 2023) in the next section: "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future. Getting online is merely the first step. Player-retention, however, is the second. Once the handful of players that have made past all the hurdles arrive at the summit, they see a landscape dominated by Casuals and Pros (2TC-AQ macro-meta connoisseurs). Casual mode is the darling of AoT and a must-play. But, how long can mod-ifications or team games last any serious player? How long can "Mario Kart" or "Among Us" sustain gamers? And when they give their hand a try at competitive 1v1, they find that only a certain type of playstyle is tolerated. What the (boomy) gatekeepers have conveniently neglected to mention: Which Major Gods dominate all of these modes: Team games Water maps Mods 1v1 What do all of the schisms have in common in terms of their core gameplay? (Even to this day - Section Responses - "How did the expansion packs harm Norse?"). Free Myth Units lock the macro-meta. Blocked by: Wadjet + Towers "Just create an Odysseus". But, my curated Build Order doesn't permit that. "GitGud". "Or don't aggress in Classical Age, just 2TC boom™ like me". (Perhaps this is why team-game players and balancers™ are so keen on removing Egyptian's Mercenaries). High-hunt maps lock the macro-meta. Denied of hunt? Wiser opponents will Advance faster with a free GP and MU and/or overwhelm with Food-based military. Shooting Docks lock the macro-meta. Did you create a Build Order to gain the upper hand in the early game to: Whittle the opponent's Dock HP? Attack their Docks by land and Water? Punished. 2TC's lock the macro-meta. A Third Age feature is now available in the Second Age. This "removed" Classical Age fighting. This is the feature that forced the late-game into the early game, turning AoM into AoE2, with players sitting in the corner of the map, booming away. Autoqueue locks the macro-meta.* AoT is a gigantic, glorified mod-ification to the original game-design in order to onboard new players. However, it obliterated fair play for any who did not operate within the spectrum of its new features' macro-meta, promoting a peculiar playstyle - just YouTube any "Age of Mythology tournament" video. Very fun. So, the solution is: More balancing™? But the problem: With a standardized system (AQ) and nearly-symmetrical "Random" Maps (for 2TC's), game balance can only be taken so far - patches can only patch so much before they can no longer patch any more. * "I disagree. No match is ever the same. Where is this 'standardization'? And what are Random Maps?" "Where is this 'standardization'?" If Villagers/Hoplites can be created every 14 seconds, that is standardization of unit-production. Therefore, the Player can rely on that constant to build upon the meta via attack/Advance timings, standardizing strategies/tactics. Eventually, the "meta" (macro-meta) is perfected/"solved"... "And what are Random Maps?" ... therefore, balancers™ must chip away at the asymmetry of Random Maps* and civilization design* in order to keep the "metas" (micro-metas) "fresh" - balanced™ - standardized - for "fair play" (boomy lameplay)... ... because: Any minor disadvantage resulting from map asymmetry or "imbalances" will throw off the trajectory of the disadvantaged Player on an already-level playing-field co-created by AQ (and 2TC's - the ironies). * Voobly and AoMEE. "No match is ever the same". True for the micro-meta, but not for the macro-meta. Please read Section Definitions - ii Critical definitions. Source: Post #1 - Section 1.0 - AQ - 1. Bullet points So much for "balancing" - cue: Redesigning. (Section "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future). Plenty of players, dissatisfied with these discoveries, eventually quit the game. And unlike attention-seeking (man-)children, they did not post every little frustration online back then. However, a few testimonies are still available: Forums (excluding the dead sites and gatekept sources) brownbear/Parfait/P3N3M4 (Bio: https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Parfait, https://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,36052,0,10) Age of Mythology Retrospective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0IujCi7leA 14:49 18:10 Regardless of AoM Retold's future success, there will be many displeased with the standardization™/balance™/AoE2-boomy-lameplay - AoT's macro-metas. This is where the Open Letter comes in. Age of Mythology never had a chance to succeed because it was no longer "Age of Mythology". "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" The low retention-rate of new players is not because, "AoM is unpopular... because AoM is unpopular". Middle-class players (non-Casuals, non-Pros) are not stupid. It is no enigma to them, after many hours of online gameplay experience, that the game is not organic: AQ: Robs the player of many windows-of-opportunity to exploit their opponent's inattention. 2TC's made: Maps "smaller" Matches constricted to macro-meta strategies. Age of Free Insurance™ (Free MU's, Shooting Docks, Titans, free GP's...) either: Safeguards the Boomer/Casual by buffering enemy aggression. Fosters a fiesta-mode gameplay, denying meaningful competition by introducing chaotic elements (undeserved/unpaid perks) to "'equal' starts". Consider: What if Microsoft/Blizzard introduced those features into AoE2/SC2? Even with the rise of smartphones and Battle Royale games, there were periods of player influxes to AoMEE, clearly showing that RTS games are not obsolete. The population can still grow (so long as automation and Age of Free Insurance™ are removed). AoMEE released on May, 2014 TotD released on January, 2016 COVID lockdowns: 2020 - 2023 AoM Retold announced on October, 2022 Occasional Steam sales https://steamcharts.com/app/266840 But due to the increased requirements of: The adherance-to/familiarity-of the "meta" (macro-meta): 2TC-meta/AQ-meta Time spent per match: Boomy longplay Maximizing Age of Free Insurance™: Cheese/abuse Why would most gamers want to play this game? Gameplay-wise, "The Titans'" core-mechanics are the sole reasons for AoM's cult status instead of a recognized brand. Spoiler "Aren't maps just maps?" Ensemble Studios didn't intend for AoM to be some muscle-memory game with the same maps, like StarCraft, a game of perfectionism. That was why they created randomized maps so players could scout the map and use everything to their advantage. May the person with the best reflexes and intuition win! Random Maps and Relics (and no AQ) mix things up. But, no, you have players who just want to do their usual 2TC. They already know the point of the game. If someone else has an extra Gold Mine, they cry. They don't want to scout. They don't want to use the terrain. Everything must be standardized™ like chess pieces on the board. Because they don't want to put in the extra effort to Classical fight (that is, to create a new BO). Right. Because 2TC's and free MU's basically rewards the Boomer - Age of Free Insurance™, not Age of Mythology! Do you know who always complains about map balance™? Boomy players. Because all they do is the same thing over and over again: 2TC, AQ, raid, lame, 2TC, AQ, RAID, LAME! Pro recs are a joke for scouting: they always miss 1 or 2 Gold Mines or hunt. That's why they always complain about map balance™. Because they never put in the effort to scout thoroughly (in an already-small sandbox). Resolving map screws is not the same thing as standardizing™ maps. Having nearly-symmetrical maps actually favor boomy civilizations! Refer to Post #1 - Section 1 2TC'S - regarding its effect on map design. Refer to the next section, On Random Maps, regarding map design. "Wasn't the 2002 AoM competitive scene not good?" They only had less than a year to flesh out their macro-meta before the wrecking ball that was AoT came in. They simply didn't have enough time or AQ. Suppe/Love_soup interview (2009). "What if your suggestions create even more imbalances?" Then balance™ (not "redesign") the unit/GP/micro-meta imbalances. Just get rid of the automation (2TC's, AQ) and Age of Free Insurance™ (free MU's, Shooting Docks, Titans) which lock the macro-meta in 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy matches. On Random Maps Spoiler Contextual reading: Post #1 - Section 1 - 2TC's Post #1 - Ending Note #2 - regarding AoM's sandbox desgin "Symmetrical maps allow for fair play". Symmetrical maps lock the macro-meta. Nearly-symmetrical-generated maps is a form of standardization, regardless of its "randomized" generation. (2TC's causes): Standardized "Random" Maps causes: Standardized resource distribution/expectations causes: Standardized Build Orders causes: Standardized execution causes: Esports-esque playstyle Standardized metas causes: The game to play by itself* Standardized balance™ causes: Standardized civilizations AoM to turn into AoE2/SC2 * "I disagree" Spoiler * "I disagree. No match is ever the same. Where is this 'standardization'? And what are Random Maps?" "Where is this 'standardization'?" If Villagers/Hoplites can be created every 14 seconds, that is standardization of unit-production. Therefore, the Player can rely on that constant to build upon the meta via attack/Advance timings, standardizing strategies/tactics. Eventually, the "meta" (macro-meta) is perfected/"solved"... "And what are Random Maps?" ... therefore, balancers™ must chip away at the asymmetry of Random Maps* and civilization design* in order to keep the "meta" (micro-metas) "fresh" - balanced™ - standardized - for "fair play" (boomy lameplay)... ... because: Any minor disadvantage resulting from map asymmetry or "imbalances" will throw off the trajectory of the disadvantaged Player's macro-meta on an already-level playing-field co-created by AQ (and 2TC's - all the ironies). * Voobly and AoMEE. "No match is ever the same". True for the micro-meta, but not for the macro-meta. Please read Section Definitions - ii Critical definitions. Source: Section 1.0 - AQ - 1. Bullet points (2TC's causes)... When viewed through the lens of AoT, random maps are unfair, because: On high-hunt maps, defenders denied of hunt might have no "backup" hunt in the corner of their map. With 2TC's, players will not have the same resources as their opponent. So, of course, maps must be standardized™/nearly-symmetrical otherwise it wouldn't be fair to players! But with the inclusion of such game-changing features, AoM's sandbox must be accounted for. The sandbox is not merely "map size" - it is the interaction between all of the different variables inside the map/(micro-)environment(s). (E.g.: Unit speed/damage/gathering-rates, attack/Advance timings, resource placement, impassible barriers, friendly/hostile/neutral units, and all else). In Age of Mythology, Ensemble Studios intended for matches to be even aggressive* and quicker* than AoE2's as evident with: Redesigned Walls Three main resources Lowered Population cap Fewer tech-tree units Settlements Smaller maps Spoiler Explanation: Redesigned Walls* meant AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are: Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls More expensive Slower to build Weaker Three general resources* meant more focus on micro-management. Lowered Population cap* meant: These were scaled for the sandbox: Resource-gathering rates Unit stats and prices: Units are worth more in stats (one reason why Villagers could fend off military units); they are not as expendable as AoE2 units and "last longer". Building stats and prices: Buildings cannot be "spammed" like in AoE2; they are fewer and must be placed wisely. Fewer units and buildings to control than AoE2's. Players must balance their Villager-military ratio. Infinite Food sources post-hunt (Farms and fishing pools). Fewer tech-tree units (and their implications). Settlements (and their implications). Smaller maps (and their implications). In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design! Fewer tech-tree units* meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter. Settlements* meant Population and Villager production had to be earned (fought over); players cannot sit comfortably within city Walls and outboom their opponent like in AoE2 or with 2TC's. Smaller maps* meant: Scouting/line-of-sight has a more prominent role. Tighter matches instead of the standard boomy longplay of AoE2. Quasi-asymmetrical design. Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (IGN - September 27, 2002) - https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/27/maps-of-mythology * Meant for Classical Age Fighting, not 2TC/AoE2 boomplay. (Post #2 - FAQ #2 How did the expansion packs harm Norse?). Source: Post #1 - Ending Note #2. AoM's sandbox was clearly not designed for or around 2TC's. Therefore, the sandbox ought to be scaled accordingly to those features. However, that wasn't the case. With the advent of: Nearly-symmetrical maps ("Mega Random" mod (Voobly), Voobly's official fan-mod maps, AoMEE's equal-resource-distribution), Hunt: Increased (high-hunt maps) and balanced™ (near-equal distribution), Free™ MU's scouting the maps and securing 2TC's for free, 2TC's securing nearby resources, Quote With 2TC's taking a chunk of map area, With 2TC's increasing Population, With 2TC'S doubling Villagers - Source: Post #1 - Section 2TC's The small maps in AoM have therefore been made "smaller". Map information is even more accessible in the small maps. A third Age feature is available in the second Age, forcing the late-game onto players. A third resource that fuels aggression/Advancement is now as plentiful as trees and mines. The game plays by itself. With the macro-meta locked, AoT's features successfully transformed the small maps of AoM into sandboxes of pre-determined moves - a "turn-based tactics" game.* * Above: "I disagree" asterisk. Quote Chess is all about... memorization. It's all about pre-arrangement. [Chess] players are living in a dream world. - Bobby Fischer (American chess grandmaster, 11th World Chess Champion) Standardized resources distribution/expectations... Before: Players would need to scout at least 4/5* of the map. Now: Players could scout at least 1/3* of the map to know the general layout. * Free-MU™ scouting included. Consider: What is the purpose of fog of war? What is the difference between black and gray fog of war? Before: The rusher can charge ahead and scout the opponent's base, but, at the chance that his economy will hit a roadblock because he did not scout enough of his surroundings. There was a risk and there was a reward. Now? Rusher: Didn't scout his own base, but only the opponent's, and ran out of hunt? Move to the left/right. Defender: Denied of hunt/gold? Move to the left/right. The game plays by itself. Standardized Build Orders causes... Standardized execution... For a game to feature both real-time gameplay and resource gathering, there will be logistics. The problem with Build Orders is that, on nearly-symmetrical maps, they are what make the game play by itself - with players "perfectly" executing the same Build Orders and timings, every single time. Nearly-symmetrical maps ironically turns the game into StarCraft.* Quote * Games of hyper-reaction, muscle-memory, and perfectionism due to: Symmetrical maps, revealed maps, and a simplified economy. Source: Post #1 - Section AQ - 2. RTS's core gameplay - designed around attention. Consider: A Korean StarCraft Esports gamer can bust away 16 hours on the same maps, using the same Build Orders, executing with the same efficiency. How long will it be until the maps' metas are "perfected"? How can others even compete with such raw speed? This is the type of braindead APM and dead-end gameplay Ensemble Studios have foreseen with "fair play"-generated-maps - especially in small sandboxes. Nearly-symmetrical maps lock the macro-meta. That was why AoM's Random Map seeds were created. Whereas static/(nearly-)symmetrical maps (Blizzard's RTS's) focus more on user mechanics ("muscle memory") and building upon the same meta, on the same maps - dynamic/asymmetrical maps ("Age of" RTS's) focus more on intuition and adapting the meta to the available resources near their bases. Now? The game is just a clickfest to see who can micro-r***** the fastest. Like what AQ did for players - it inflates their APM, while focusing on the "same" strategies. Randomized maps, in AoM's sandbox, lead to organic games. The game isn't purely aggression; that was why hunt was limited. But with 2TC's, players seem to have forgotten that there was a second Age between Archaic and Heroic. And not only did it delayed (and RTS games are time-critical) or suppressed Classical Age fighting, it downplayed an entire civilization's design: Norse. The problem isn't "X feature this", "X feature that"; it's the entire picture. The game plays by itself. Quote Other than a few exceptions, what is undeniable: The majority of matches result in 2TC's. Source: Post #1 - "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" Quote AoT is a gigantic, glorified mod-ification to the original game-design in order to onboard new players. However, it obliterated fair play for any who did not operate within the spectrum of its new features' macro-meta, promoting a peculiar playstyle - just YouTube any "Age of Mythology tournament" video. Source: FAQ #2 - "How was it AoT's fault when it was the publishers that have gatekept the game's accessibility?" Bobby Fischer (American chess grandmaster, 11th World Chess Champion) explaining chess' macro-meta: Me and Bobby Fischer (2009) "I think the idea of adding The Unknown.... If it was a competitive map, it would be so fun: Every single game would be different, you'd have no idea of what you're launching into, you'd have to actually scout to like figure it out, you'd have to like adapt your builds - everything is unique in that way... a new experience every time you play the game." Boit (January 5, 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6rSW1mBRV4&t=5233s Maps of Mythology ("Greg Street discusses the maps in Age of Mythology") https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/27/maps-of-mythology Refer to Post #1 - Section 1 - regarding AoT's features. "How did the expansion packs harm Norse?" Table of contents: Introduction "So how did the expansion packs harm Norse?" Norse and maps Spoiler Introduction Norse is perhaps the most difficult civilization to play in 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy because of: Build Order complexity Acute map dependency Hack-only Odd unit composition Each of the 3 Norse Major Gods have different perks, meaning their BO's are not interchangeable amongst each other as with the Greeks or Egyptians. Try consistently creating sub-4:30 Norse BO's on-the-go; unlike the Greeks or Egyptians, Norse cannot change Dwarves/Villagers/Ox-Carts/Ulfsarks midway and still achieve the same timing. And although every high-ranked player can make a sub-4:30 Norse BO, the question is: Is it effective - can that BO produce units from 3 military buildings on AQ, non-stop, after the infantry built them immediately reaching Classical Age? Norse BO's are also harder to standardize due to Random Maps. That is why BO crafting is critical to any competitive Norse Mains. On low hunt maps, Norse is at a disadvantage in the context of AoT's features. On Water Maps: Norse has 2 Villagers to begin with, unlike the Greeks (3 Villagers) or Egyptians (2 Villagers and a Pharaoh). Dwarves do not cut wood faster than Gatherers. Their Arrow Ships: Have the slowest speed, meaning they receive extra damage when retreating. Their (meager) extra damage is "useless" if their lumber output cannot keep up with the Greeks or Egyptians. That is why, for all of their disadvantages, complexities, and customizability, if the player could win as Norse, they deserved it. Because they had the skill (APM, micro, intuition) and/or preparation (excellent BO's). "So how did the expansion packs harm Norse?" Spoiler Regarding free MU's* for Norse: Free MU's provide free scouting and extra defense/offense: Against a fast MU, a Norse rusher has to remove 2 Hersirs from combat to defend both hunt and gold. Especially in the early game, every hersir counts towards their rushing. Consider: Why should a defender be rewarded with free Line of Sight (scouting) and raiding for only Advancing? Consider: Why should the aggressor be punished for aggressing, harrassed by them? Against a slow or ranged MU, Norse has to trade/sacrifice a few Hersirs or else lose their free MU and human military to it over time. This buys more time for the boomer to defend and acquire "free kills". And RTS games are time-critical, especially in regards to aggression. Consider: Without free MU's, how many extra resources would the defender need to spend from defending against Norse aggression? All of these disadvantages stack. Regarding 2TC's* for Norse: 2TC's forces in the late-game: Other Civilizations' "hunting bonuses", "Dwarves", and cost-efficient military were derived from 2TC's, later, in Heroic Age. With 2TC's, Norse/aggressors would have to fight against an inflated playstyle and/or "terrain/map" formerly locked behind an entire Age. Source: Norse and Maps. Against a mini "Fortress", the attack-standards are raised significantly; Norse would need to siege instead to make up for their original aggression, while facing 0-range arrow fire and Garrison tactics/"abuse". Therefore, the Norse player loses time and more units than before if choosing this path of aggression. And, on low-hunt maps, their aggression would suffer. And RTS games are time-critical, especially in regards to aggression. All of these disadvantages stack. Regarding high-hunt maps (of The Titans expansion pack)* for Norse, it creates the macro-meta illusion that Norse is overpowered because of their hunting bonus. However, on Vanilla maps, the truth (less hunt) clearly reveals itself. Regarding AQ* for Norse, RTS games are designed around attention. Aggressors benefit from robbing the defender** of their attention***. However: AQ undid all of that by streamlining player economy/military, rewarding boomy/casual playstyles. ** Whose tech-tree was designed with "weaker" or non-cost-efficient units *** E.g.: Micro-managing their buildings (unit-production) Regarding Shooting Docks* for Norse, Norse already struggles to compete on water with their 2-Villager starts. Greeks have 3 Villagers and Egyptians have 2 Villagers Empowered by a Pharaoh. Norse has dwarves, but they do not cut wood any faster than a Gatherer. Regarding Titans* for Norse, Norse is already at a severe disadvantage because their Villagers cannot build it. They have to either Ragnarok or REap SIGNificant losses. In other words, with or without Ragnarok, Norse's infantry will still have to build or counter it, thereby affecting their offensive ability and map control. Regarding Atlanteans for Norse, there was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive flying MU's only available in Mythic Age, not Heroic Age. And since Norse has no archers (an intended weakness Ensemble Studios gave to Norse as part of their civilization identity), the Axe of Muspell was simply a reaction Tech hastily given for Norse to research... in Heroic Age?! In Classical Age, Massed Throwing Axemen are needed to defeat one Stymphalian Bird, which are easy pickings to Turmas as they deal bonus damage to anti-infantry. This mainly applies to team games and lower-ranked games. * Assuming both players were of equal skill. Quote "Well, there was more than one way* out of that scenario; you were just not playing the game correctly**". * I.e.: The micro-meta. ** I.e.: The macro-meta. Source: Post #1 - Ending Note #1. It is no surprise why most AoT players do not Main Norse. Time for new balance patch? https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/RTS-Sanctuary/showtopic=250020 Voobly DataBase Winrate/Pickrate from top 100 players 23/03/2024 (credit: oMoradin) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inpPHbWB4sa0KtRc19DBhGIkiWN9877mHZJitQyxGJw/edit#gid=1030323291 But because the balancers™ refuse to give up the perks that benefit their boomy gameplay: Free MU's, 2TC's... And because developers/balancers™/pros "only know" playing Norse from an AoE (Greek/Egyptian) perspective... Cue: Redesigning. Regarding AoT: Atlanteans was designed to be Norse's "replacement" in a free MU and 2TC meta: By becoming the new early-game aggressor With cost-effective, odd units With simpler early-game macro (more time to micro) with: ~2.3-Villager Citzens (e.g.: How Norse queue Dwarves to Gold) No drop-off buildings/units ("Ox Carts") More information in Post #1 - Section 3.0 regarding civilization design. Regarding AoM Retold: Norse's redesigned tech-tree. (Section "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future). "Stop. COMPLAINING. Norse can now rush/raid better than ever before".** "Pros don't 'know' how to play Norse? (Do you even Ladder the current meta?)"* "Norse is objectively stronger than you make them seem. Do you even Ladder the current meta?"** * 1.x raiding parties. Rag management. Forsetti-Loki default. BO's/timings. ** What was Norse's intended/original playstyle expression? ** How did each of AoT's features affect Norse's aggression in comparison to Vanilla/AoM? ** Adding more aggression perks on top of an AoE playstyle (2TC macro-meta) as compensation - you've completely missed the point. Also, the consequences of AoT aren't largely limited to Norse, but to every civilization. Those who remember the raw playstyles knows. Spoiler AoM used to be a savage landscape of Classical Age fighting, players vying for extra: Population, Villagers, and map-control/mini-fortresses for Heroic Age. It used to be a battle of immediate wits: The (unedited) randomized maps had players actively scouting... ... on low-hunt maps, which forced players to frequently breach contact as they competed for a rapidly-diminishing source of "fast" Food... ... in the small-map design, which enabled them to easily feign under the cloak of Fog of War. It was raw. It was aggressive. There was no hand-holding, no locking of the macro-meta; the match rested on player decision-making, not pre-determined factors: There was no secondary economy (2x villager production) or building (Settlement) to fall back on if players overspent Food on military in Vanilla standard: Low-hunt maps. There were no free Myth Units to help scout/raid the small maps and defend. Spoiler In Vanilla: Egyptian Barracks units used to be stronger. Norse Barracks used to cost 120 Wood (instead of 110 Wood). Maps used to be more "imbalanced". Norse and maps Spoiler Quote In Age of Mythology, Ensemble Studios intended for matches to be even aggressive and quicker than AoE2's as evident with: Lowered Population cap Fewer tech-tree ("civilization") units Three main resources Settlements Redesigned Walls Smaller maps Explanation: Lowered Population cap* meant: These were scaled for the sandbox: Resource-gathering rates Unit stats and prices: Units are worth more in stats (one reason why Villagers could fend off military units); they are not as expendable as AoE2 units and "last longer". Building stats and prices: Buildings cannot be "spammed" like in AoE2; they are fewer and must be placed wisely. Fewer units and buildings to control than AoE2's. Players must balance their Villager-military ratio. Infinite Food sources post-hunt (Farms and fishing pools). Smaller maps(and their implications). Settlements (and their implications). Fewer tech-tree units (and their implications). In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design! Fewer tech-tree units* meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter. Three general resources* meant more focus on micro-management. Settlements* meant Population and Villager production had to be earned (fought over); players cannot sit comfortably within city Walls and outboom their opponent like in AoE2 or with 2TC's. Redesigned Walls* meant AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are: Weaker Slower to build More expensive Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls Smaller maps* meant: Scouting/line-of-sight has a more prominent role. Tighter matches instead of the standard boomy longplay of AoE2. Quasi-asymmetrical design. Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (IGN - September 27, 2002) - https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/27/maps-of-mythology * Meant for Classical Age Fighting, not 2TC/AoE2 boomplay. Source: Post #1 - Section Ending Note #2 ... Author's note: We all know how boomy team games and Water maps are. Consider: Which Major Gods dominate those modes? This is AoT. ... In Vanilla, players would have to scavange for whatever remaining hunt is left on the map. And if hunt ran out, they would utilize herdables/berries before transitioning to Farms, to either: Advance to Heroic Age for 2TC's and better units Continue struggling for map control But, 2TC's unlock more economy and map-control for the second Age. That is why boomier civilizations (non-Norse) thrive, as those features were originally intended for the third Age - the time when also Norse begins to fall out from their "odd" (Hack-only) units/tech. (Post #1 - Section 3.0 - regarding civilization design). With 2TC's, Norse/aggressors would have to fight against an inflated playstyle and/or "terrain/map" formerly locked behind an entire Age.* Whereas Norse has these for their Classical Age advantage...: Hunting bonuses** Dwarves Cost-efficient military ... other Civilizations' "hunting bonuses", "Dwarves", and cost-efficient military were derived from 2TC's, later, in Heroic Age. ** Designed for Vanilla maps (low-hunt). This is why Norse players take advantage of their hunting bonus to act upon the diminishing windows-of-opportunity to fight first, before settling down to raiding or Advancing. Because, if Norse cannot get much out of the encounter with their early-game stats, they would have to face the wrath from their more sophisticated counterparts in Heroic Age - until the Mythic Age for one final push through Ragnarok ("Good": Baldr; "evil": Hel; "Neutral": Tyr). (Post # 1 - Section 3.0 - regarding civilization identities). Whereas Norse is the aggressor in Classical Age, the tables are turned in Heroic Age - it is Greek's/Egyptian's turn to "rush"/raid Norse, who now has to "defend". This was why high-hunt maps were not implemented. So that Norse cannot continue terrorizing after their initial power spike. * So players in Heroic Age cannot continue to take advantage of hunt, with 2TC's, not having to expend Villagers onto Wood for Farming, saving them much time, and exponentially solidifying their map dominance. Regarding hunt on maps: Spoiler 1 of the 5 Vanilla land maps is high-hunt, but its vast natural obstacles allow defenders to secure a portion of the map and hunt for themselves from aggressors. 1 of the 5 Vanilla land maps is medium-hunt. Although Norse accelerates with higher hunt, the open space means their base and villagers are not exempt from raiders (fueled also by adequate game). 3 of the 5 Vanilla land maps are low-hunt. Norse players would have to either raid (instead of attacking) or Advance to Heroic Age for 2TC's. This may also be the reason why AoT players "cannot" play with the rest of the non-competitive RM maps without making them nearly-symmetrical and/or heavily editing them. Re-read from this sentence: "But, 2TC's unlock more economy and map-control".... Legacy AoM was clearly designed with Norse and low-hunt maps in mind, which the gatekeepers conveniently sweep under the rug (along with Ensemble Studios' other design philosophies) in favor of their: New civilizations 2TC boomy playstyles "Balance™" (standardization or redesign) "patches" from AQ's standardization™ of metas They would rob us of the core gameplay for their macro-meta strategies. And then they wonder why the game plays by itself. The problem is not Norse's design. It is 2TC's, high-hunt maps - THE TITANS EXPANSION PACK. AoT players can either continue to deny the macro-meta reality, or, gatekeep for their same, lame, dead gameplay. Spoiler FAQ #3 Table of Contents "What separates AoM from AoE?" "What is this 'Age of Free Insurance™'?" "What is this '™'?" Spoiler "What separates AoM from AoE?" Smaller sandbox: Shorter matches Aggressive gameplay Population determined by map control (Settlements) Fewer units to control (and "stronger") Fewer buildings to place See Post #1 - Section Ending Note #2 - for more details Asymmetrical tech-trees (instead of variations of 1 tech-tree) Freedom of the grid-system (building-placement/unit-movement flexibility) Initial acceleration (slow to normal) in unit speed (more noticeable in formations) Attack-animation variety; diversity in combat visuals and damage dealt Unit-snaring (attacked units move slower) Projectile-tracking "probability" Randomized Relics with perks God powers (AoM was designed around free God Powers) Myth Units (balanced by availability: Prices and Heroes) "What is this 'Age of Free Insurance™'?" See: Terms and Conditions may apply. Although "Age of Mythology" does not have "Empires" in its title, it retained a core concept from the series, namely, the Advancing system: A considerable amount of resources was spent to Advance During Advancing, the researching Town Center could not produce Villagers for a minute In other words, what could have been used to build one's military/economy and securing map control for 60 seconds was instead spent as a long-term investment for better: Techs, MU's, GP's, Population (2TC's), and economy (2TC Villagers). As you progress through the Ages, can your Empire withstand the "barbarians" during and after that time of vulnerability? Instead, upon Advancing, you get: Free Myth Units 2TC's (Classical Age) Titan Gates (Mythic Age) Free God Powers (which were designed around AoM) In other words, the game rewards you for your efforts of simply DOING NOTHING OTHER THAN BOOMING/ADVANCING. Terms and Conditions: Spoiler Free for boomy civilizations and AoFI™ abusers, at the expense of: Norse players, creative risk takers, and aggressive playstyles. In AoFI™: Your APM does not matter. Your Build Orders do not matter. The Norse playstyle Ensemble Studios envisioned for AoM does not matter. The "meta" (micro-meta) is an illusion. There is only one way to play the game. TheMista Interview (2015). "What is this '™'?" The majority of balancing™ only address the surface-level symptoms, not the original problem (Age of Free Insurance™). The forum-admins are composed of those excelled in the "meta" (macro-meta), established by Age of Free Insurance™. (Can the reader guess what their Mains are)? Which studio (now) owns RTS-Sanctuary? Which studio also works on AoM Retold? Spoiler "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future Spoiler When "patches" have exceeded their capacity to mend the tears of 2TC/AQ, do "patches" begin to extend beyond balancing™. They will not even be within the leagues of nominal "patching"/"balancing". But instead: Some third-rate errand, dished out for fanboys (paid/"free labor") to screw around with: Mods. Breaking unspoken standards regarding game design I. Just because something is underutilized does not mean it should be buffed/cheaper/better. If it is not broken, don't fix it. Unpopular Major/Minor Gods An example: Voobly buffed Heimdall's Undermine GP, making it even stronger than Kronos' Deconstruct by affecting any and even incompleted buildings - no refunds! "Underpowered" is an overrated term tossed around by players utilizing a "standardized" system (AQ). But if AQ was removed, an influx of in-game choices would be available for players to manipulate with. And in those situations, in the right hands, "underpowered" features can be used quite frighteningly effective. Underused does not mean "useless". Myth Units For a game about mythology, MU's are disappointingly not prevalent in multiplayer matches. But this was not an oversight, the reason: They are imbalanced. Yet, they are also countered by Heroes ("rock paper scissors" formula). Therefore: Although Myth Units are mythically powerful ("unrivaled"), they are also mythically available ("scarce"). Respectively, and, in accordance to AoM's: Theme and balance. That was why Ensemble Studios locked them with their prices. Just because it has a similar word in the game title does not mean it should be easily accessible. Buffed/"super" Relics Some of the Relics are weak enough that they do not completely tilt the game in the owner's favor. (And those that do should be debuffed; Post #1 - Section 2.6). But having very increased perks turns them into undeserved, passive "power spikes" for the duration of its garrison. So, as the match progresses, buffed/"super" Relics may prove to be even powerful than a multitude of free GP's/MU's. Although Relics promote match entropy/diversity, they are not to be stronger than Major God perks. Buffed/"super" Relics: Lock the macro-meta to "RNG"/"randomization" instead of player efforts. Severely punish players denied of the exclusive benefits. Are like free MU's. Cause the early-game to become a ratrace for players to snag exclusive perks instead of establishing map-control/aggression (contrary to expectations), securing extra time for players to (2TC) boom as a consequence. Health regeneration There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had the healing of units relegated to specific god paths. Health regeneration has a considerable effect, especially in small sandboxes like AoM's (fewer units than AoE2, but, "stronger"). Although Greek (strongest civilization by unit stats) and Norse (most aggressive/raiding civilization) have access to healing, their usage is restricted by accessibility and/or availability to time and/or location (E.g.: Single-use, slow/inefficient, and/or at specifc areas). The only "universal" healing is found through Egyptian's Heroes. And the offset: They are a defensive civilization with generally "cheap"/"weak" units, and, slow builders/gatherers. For a unit/building/Relic to have regeneration, it must adhere to the recurring theme: The less exclusive its accessibility/availability, the more penalized the source/Invoker should be. E.g.: If Ox Carts (Norse's drop-sites, mobile) were to receive regeneration, their total HP should be halved. E.g.: Why 1.03 (AoT) Odin was never as popular as Thor or Loki: Military health regeneration. Odin's Ravens See Section 2.2. [Insert other grievances/ideas] II. "Ludicrousness"/suspension-of-disbelief Although AoM is a game, certain levels of realism should not be dismissed. Infantry should not run as fast as Cavalry Explanation: AoMEE's Khopesh (5.8 speed) Removes Egyptian's civilizational identity: Egyptian Classical Age units are: "Slow" Locked to Infantry and Slingers (Vanilla) Hersirs with Hall of Thanes upgrade (Loki: 5.72 speed, Thor: 5.3) Alternative: Tweaked Hall of Thanes (Post #1 - Section 2.6). Wall HP should not be affected by adjacent Walls Explanation: Absurdity: In AoM, attacked Walls drop to the lowest HP of any adjacent Wall. Garrison/transport capacity should not be determined by unit-count Explanation: Ludicrous example: Unit-based: Rocs can carry 15 War Elephants (75 Population) or Villagers (15 Population). Alternative example: Population-based: Rocs can carry 3 War Elephants or 15 Villagers. Flying units should not be frozen mid-air Explanation: Frost Giants are melee, not ranged units. Flying units should fall down if frozen. AoM is not a: MOBA Children's smartphone game Cartoon game (AoEO) Mod [Insert other grievances/ideas] If "ludicrousness" is to be implemented, it must be supplemented with the appropriate animations, new models, and renaming of texts. But then it would no longer be Ensemble Studios' AoM, but a corporate mishmashing to generate sales.... Remaking the game (for sales and boomers/Casuals) I. ... with the first step being to "equalize" gathering rates. The purpose is to undermine civilizational identities in preparation for the introduction of new "civilizations" (tech-trees) to fulfill the trend of NOMINAL "civilizations" established in AoE. (And to meet sales quotas). While not understanding: The "civilizations" in AoE are merely deviated variations of 1 base tech-tree.... AoM's civilizations are literally asymmetrical, like the factions of StarCraft, Warcraft, Red Alert, Grey Goo, etc.... Why most RTS studios average to 3 asymmetrical tech-trees: Balance.... Quote Asymmetrical design is the enemy of standardization. Source: Post #1 - Section 1 AQ - 1. Bullet Points I.e.: Nobody read Post #1 - Section 3.0. II. "Equalizing" starts. Spoiler Equalized starting/map resources Consequences: Downplays scouting in an already-small sandbox. Rewards 2TC gameplay. Standardization of Build Orders Standardization of matches Standardizing.... Villagers have 100% accuracy for hunting Consequences: A stepping stone to potentially removing/editing AoM's projectile system ("if hunters can shoot perfectly, why couldn't buildings, archers, ships...?") in the name of balance™ (2TC/AQ player buzzword for "standardization"), taking AoM one step closer to AoE. Rewards time and attention to those who do not micro-manage their hunters. Downplays Ensemble Studios' theme of hostile huntables. Standardizes beginnings. Huntables cannot be attacked by non-Villagers in Archaic Age Archaic Age aggression debuffed/non-existent The purpose: To give "breathing room" for players to establish early-game starts/buildings without fear of harrassment. Consequences: This rewards unprepared/Casual/boomy (2TC's) play by: Removing a portion of the early game for savvy players. (Boomers' definition: Cheese). Standardizing games. (Equal results in favor over equal opportunities). Quote Asymmetrical design is the enemy of standardization. Source: Post #1 - Section 1 AQ - 1. Bullet Points I.e.: Nobody read Post #1 - Section 1.1 - regarding "barriers". III. Equalizing miscellaneous. Spoiler Increased range via upgrades E.g.: Marching arbalests (AoE) instead of the slow, low-firing-rate, and "inaccurate" ranged-units (AoM). "1 base" tech-tree E.g.: Norse Gatherers/Dwarves can build Norse Pierce units/Heroes Throwing axemen receive extra range and accuracy Egyptian gathering-rate/Favor buffs Egyptian Mercenary removal AoMEE units Consequences: Civilizations lose their identities. Explanation of civilizational identities: Although Norse infantry can (forward-)build, their: Villagers cannot Buildings are weaker Bases are underdefended Although Norse can Advance quicker, gather hunt and Gold quicker, they are limited to Hack damage and limited range. Consider how dreadful Norse would be with Classical Age archers. This is also why Throwing Axemen have lower range and accuracy, fitting to Norse's theme ("throwing axes") and balance (i.e., they're already "archers"). AoT players want Reigenleif (Campaign Norse Hero Archer) just to play against Stymphalian Birds (Atlantean offensive flying MU's available in the third Age (antagonistic to Ensemble Studios' MU philosophy)). Although Egyptian Villagers are slow to: Build, their buildings are free/cheaper and stronger. Gather, they have a Pharaoh. Egyptian Mercenaries Author's note: If you are losing to mercs, you are doing something wrong. Mercenaries are a liability. If you do not know how to (lead an eggy to) exploit them (and study your recorded games), you were just playing a (2TC) boom fest (in denial) and justably deserve the loss for allowing the slowest civilization in the game to prosper. AoMEE supplemented each Civilization with a unit to undo their intended weaknesses (civilizational identity). Greeks: A Hero to heal the strongest Civilization in the game. Egyptians: A counter-Villager raider-infantry unit that runs almost as fast as cavalry (5.8). Norse: An archer available in Heroic Age. Quote Asymmetrical design is the enemy of standardization. Source: Post #1 - Section 1 AQ - 1. Bullet Points I.e.: Nobody learned the lesson from AoMEE. Nobody read Post #1 - Section 3.0. If you are asking AoT Pros for feedback, you'll only get pro-AoT opinions. AoT players are using their standardized gameplay experience (2TC-meta/AQ-meta/no-(active-)scouting-meta) to justify the "AoE'fication" and "standardization" of this game. Quote * "I disagree. No match is ever the same. Where is this 'standardization'? And what are Random Maps?" "Where is this 'standardization'?" If Villagers/Hoplites can be created every 14 seconds, that is standardization of unit-production. Therefore, the Player can rely on that constant to build upon the meta via attack/Advance timings, standardizing strategies/tactics. Eventually, the "meta" (macro-meta) is perfected/"solved"... "And what are Random Maps?" ... therefore, balancers™ must chip away at the asymmetry of Random Maps* and civilization design* in order to keep the "meta" (micro-metas) "fresh" - balanced™ - standardized - for "fair play" (boomy lameplay)... ... because: Any minor disadvantage resulting from map asymmetry or "imbalances" will throw off the trajectory of the disadvantaged Player's macro-meta on an already-level playing-field co-created by AQ (and 2TC's - all the ironies). * Voobly and AoMEE. "No match is ever the same". True for the micro-meta, but not for the macro-meta. Please read Section Definitions - ii Critical definitions. Source: Section 1.0 - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue They are the first responders to say maps must be standardized™/symmetrical and civilizations need™ more™ balancing™, but on the issues of free MU's or 2TC's, they are silent. And no wonder, because those offer variety to their macro-meta playstyles and Mains: Boomier civilizations. I.e.: Nobody read Post #1 - Sections 1.0 and 1.1. (And Post #2 "How did the expansion packs harm Norse?"). Spoiler On smurfing Spoiler Definitions: Main: The user's original/best account. Smurf: To play (verb) under an alias (noun). Extra-smurf: A separate account the user creates to smurf. Intra-smurf: A randomly-generated, temporary username given to the player in the game, without needing to create an extra-smurf. Reasons for smurfing: Rank-preservation from: Identification: Usernames reveal a player's playstyle - their strategies/tactics/vulnerabilities/etc. Rust: Decomposition of a player's skill (intellectually/physically) due to a lack of practice. Inadequate warming up prior to matches. Experimentation: Trying out different strategies/tactics. "Fun": Playing casually instead of competitively. Abusing/griefing lower-ranked players. Impersonation. Consequences of extra-smurfing in Ranked games: Given: Multiplayer RTS can be: A time-sink Stressful Players have limited recreational time. Lower-ranked players are punished as the extra-smurfer climbs up the ladder, cannibalizing the playerbase of their hard-earned ratings and valuable time (from earning the ratings and playing the imbalanced matchup). To be squashed by someone clearly above their league may cause fledgling players to: Lose confidence in the match-making system. Feel discouraged and too frustrated to play/experiment. Lose their enthusiasm for the game. Eventually quit. It ultimately harms the game's population. Propositions for intra-smurfing in Ranked games: Purpose: To mitigate the consequences and to address the reasons of extra-smurfing from: Warming up Experimentation Not addressing: Identification, rust, or fun. Given: Trophy-accounts/point-hoarding is not addressed as it is of a different topic: Rank decay. Fingerprinting and banning are of a different topic: Disciplinary actions. Propositions: Each civilization (Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Random - not Major Gods) have their own ratings. Explanation: This allows players to try out different civilizations without harming their ratings. Intra-smurfs cannot lose ratings. Non-intra-smurfs can gain/lose ratings to intra-smurfs. Explanation: This addresses the motivations of rank-preservation. In comparison to noob cannibalizing, the inflation/deflation of points to higher-ranked victors is the lesser of two evils. Intra-smurfs can only play against players with near or higher ratings. After a few games* and/or a few hours* and/or a rating threshold relative to their main account*: The acquired ratings will be applied. Intra-smurf usage is unavailable for several hours. Otherwise, after several hours*, these will reset: Ratings Intra-smurf usage * Explanation: Regarding match/time threshold: For transparency; to prevent the game from being a "smurfs" game. Regarding relative-ratings threshold: If they have reached it, it meant they have improved/"warmed up" and/or their experiment proved valid, and therefore, they do not need to intra-smurf for the relative time-being. Additional intra-smurf usage/profiles can be purchased through a subscription (E.g.: Game Pass or micro-transactions). (Post #1 - Section 3.3 on monetization ideas). (Inspired by brownbear: https://www.illiteracyhasdownsides.com/p/rts-games-should-add-native-support) RESPONSES On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said: I don't know why you think a Loki Heimdall is an auto win (Last edited: August 4, 2023) Spoiler Assuming both players were of equal skill, Loki wins against Thor on the open battlefield because of free™ Mu spawns (Age of Free Insurance™), leading to.... On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said: Thor can go Forseti - Hersir + TA + trolls and Loki can't get in So, why then would the Loki player want to invade? The Loki player gets map control: hunt and Gold, and Spy. The Loki player can also Advance to Bragi quicker. Also, an experienced Loki player wouldn't have forward built nor Advanced with 14 villagers or less. Instead, he would have been pumping military from 3 buildings (immediately built once reaching Classical Age) on AQ non-stop. Which leads back to the beginning of this section. Finally, the Loki player will steamroll with infinite hunt, 2TC's, Einherjars, and Undermine/FW. On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said: even Freja can work because Loki will need to keep a Hersir back to defend vs Valk raid Against the free™ Valkyrie, an experienced Loki player would have already kept two Hersirs behind (one for hunt, one for Gold). Against multiple Valkyries, the experienced Loki player rejoices as the Thor player cannibalized their Advance food (herdables) for mere scouting (useless raiding). Against 1 Valkyrie + 1 Ulfsark + 1 TA raids, the Loki player can always respond. In Norse wars, Loki has all the lockdown perks: His philosophy is to react accordingly to the Spied unit, gain map control, then overwhelm with free™ MU's (and Einherjars). "Show me rec". "1v1 me". Did you read anything? Consider - assuming both players were of equal skill: Who would win on the open battlefield? Why should players (especially Norse) fight under TC/tower fire? Do Heimdall players have to Advance with 14 villagers? Do Heimdall players have to forward build? Do Heimdall players have to attack early? Why should Heimdall players attack at half population? Are Hersirs the only choice for Loki? No wonder Norse players have such a poor reputation (and playerbase). On 1/11/2024 at 2:04 AM, XLightningStormL said: but Ensemble actually (Last edited: July 16, 2024) Spoiler On 1/11/2024 at 2:04 AM, XLightningStormL said: ESports communities On 1/11/2024 at 2:04 AM, XLightningStormL said: but ESports And in what way was the Open Letter about Esports? Any who did read the piece would come to the conclusion it was never about supposed "git gud" or competition. Instead of pasting entire sections - those who feel the same way as @XLightningStormLshould re-read the following Sections, starting with these sentences: Post #1 - Section Ending Note #1 All of these features were intentionally implemented by Ensemble Studios with express purpose...: Post #1 - Section Ending Note #2 It is because The Titans Expansion Pack (and free God Powers) punish you for your: Section FAQ #2's "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" Middle-class players (non-Casuals, non-Pros) are not stupid. Section "Balancing" (redesigning) and the future If you are asking AoT Pros for feedback, On 1/11/2024 at 2:04 AM, XLightningStormL said: they wanted the whole game; including multiplayer to be fun. Also re-read from the sentence: Post #1 - Section 1 Remove everything of AoT - AQ - 3. Locking the macro-meta: But AoT Players are not free; On 1/11/2024 at 2:04 AM, XLightningStormL said: There's a reason why ES crippled the competitive scene in The Titans See: Section FAQ #2's "Why can't you see that only old players would play this game?" ... ... Also consider: Why did Ensemble Studios leave the Medium Archer upgrade on the Turma? Especially for a fast, ranged, Classical Age unit? Why the elementary mistake? Why were free MU's implemented despite the clear effects it would have on: Water maps Certain civilizations (E.g.: Roc + Petsuchos) How many other such "oversights" were also left in AoT Patch 1.03? What was quite clear: Ensemble Studios designed Age of Mythology around 1v1 Supremacy (not team games, not scenarios/mods, not the Campaign). "With Age of Empires 3 we tried all of these new ideas." "I think it was a huge mistake." "We wanted to create something that was 30 percent the same, 30 percent borrowed[,] and 30 percent innovative. I think we tried to do too much." "It was like being a child[,] changing all of the dials on a television and then trying to get that picture back".... "It just wasn't an Age game anymore." Spoiler Shelley now works with Zynga.... "Last year[,] the game that really affected me was Frontierville[*]... this is a real game, this is serious and this really opened my eyes about the potential that could happen".... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pioneer_Trail Bruce Shelley (Kotaku - February 14, 2011) - https://kotaku.com/developer-age-of-empires-3-was-a-huge-mistake-5759801 With a game boasting: Small maps (sandbox)* One of the lowest APM** Civilizations that barely need Build Orders*** It would seem gamers like @XLightningStormL would rather simplify an already "simplified" game**** with mechanics***** so innovative they were never introduced back into Ensemble Studios' future titles. * Post #1 - Section Ending Note #2 ** AQ (if familiarized with the macro-meta) *** Most notably: Atlanteans **** Section FAQ #2 - "What separates AoM from AoE?" ***** Post #1 - Section 1.0 - Remove everything of AoT Consider: With a free™, fast, healing unit (Valkyrie) - what would you do with it? A) Have it as a stationary healer in your base? B) Scout the entire map and pick off straggler Villagers while Invoking Forest Fire? Therefore, scouting has been cheapened. And offense/defense exponentially buffed. Consider: With Shooting Docks - what would you do with them? A) Garrison your Fishing Ships when attacked? B) Kite your Fishing Ships with 300 APM for a 200-IQ move? Therefore, those first to arrive (prepared) are punished. Why bother with BO's? Consider: With a Titan - what would you do with it? A) Stomp your opponent's buildings? B) Be a stationary defender for your Wonder? Therefore, those who have established map control are punished. Consider: With high hunt maps - what would you do with them? A) Hunt? B) Gather Berries? Therefore, those who have established map control have accelerated capacity towards aggression or Advancing, punishing the player who was denied of game. Consider: With Atlanteans: A) Eat popcorn? B) Watch FIFA? Therefore, early matches belong to Atlanteans, punishing lower-ranked players on the ladder. But, no, the reason why AoT is unpopulated is because no-AQ players with 9,000 APM are killing all the beginners. Consider: With AQ: A) AQ? B) No AQ? Therefore, the only matches playable under AQ are the short-term (weekend/casual) or boomy playstyles. Therefore, unit production is standardized, standardizing attack/Advance timings, standardizing metas, standardizing balance™.... Consider: With 2TC's (assuming Classical Age fighting is not an option): A) 2TC? B) Fast Heroic? ... therefore standardizing maps, standardizing BO's, standardizing matches, standardizing.... And therefore, the maps in AoM (small) become smaller (ideal for macro-meta strategies; "plays like chess"). The game plays by itself. But, somehow, questioning certain game-design decisions is akin to being an elitist gatekeeper? It would seem certain players (2TC-AQ boomy mains) are sour upon seeing the sleaze behind their skill/"strategies"/status-quo unveiled... who, then, are the actual gatekeepers (under the guise of "Casuals" and "fun")? Consider: Which came first: AoM or AoT? Was AoT truly an expansion pack? How did the features released in AoT differ from AoE's expansion packs? To who and what playstyle (and therefore "Civilizations" (tech-trees)) were the features introduced in AoT catered towards? What is a macro-meta? Edited July 20 by IAmNotIronMaiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotIronMaiden Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Reserved 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoL_Iron_maiden Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I'M SP... IRON MAIDEN!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinadarcher Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Well, as well written and formatted as this is, I don't know if they would need to change the game so drastically to achieve what you are seemingly after. They could first of all try changing some of the stat values of units/buildings, and see if that can encourage a more aggressive playstyle. Likewise they could simply add a 'Vanilla' gamemode alongside Deathmatch/Lightning. Edited January 23, 2023 by Leinadarcher Me wording bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simtom Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Quote In a 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy match, assuming both players are of equal skill (one move per turn): Thor loses to Heimdall , regardless of which Classical Age god he chooses to Advance under. If the Loki player Advances under Forsetti , Thor Hersirs still lose to Loki Hersirs. If the Thor player manages to Advance under Skadi , a wise Loki player would have already Advanced under Bragi and sat on the Thor player's second gold mine with several units to bait Frost. But even if the Thor player is slightly more skilled (black goes first), his choices are limited against a Loki player who has a good BO and "strategy" (Semi Heroic). That's just not true. I think of Thor vs Loki like this, if Thor survives to ragnarok he wins. So Loki has to kill or do a lot of damage and, when both players know that, a good Thor will make it very difficult for Loki. I don't know why you think a Loki Heimdall is an auto win; Thor can go Forseti - Hersir + TA + trolls and Loki can't get in; you can also do an early ulf flood, remember Thor has stronger eco and fighting close to your base is an advantage.. even Freja can work because Loki will need to keep a Hersir back to defend vs Valk raid. In general rushing Thor with Loki is not that viable. I wouldn't do it in a serious game because it's too risky. But playing Forseti is tricky too because if you're not far ahead by heroic age you'll lose to Ragnarok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XLightningStormL Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 All due respect, but Ensemble actually despised a lot of the ESports communities for their games. There's a reason why ES crippled the competitive scene in The Titans (and the post-Titans patches) by adding a lot of those changes: they wanted the whole game; including multiplayer to be fun. This isn't to say that ES were totally against an active, dedicated multiplayer community that had tournaments and changing ranks (ELO scoring) they just weren't interested in sweaty Starcraft "high skill" gatekeeping gamerz bitching and moaning on the forums (causing all the casuals and MP noobs that just want to have fun; I.E the majority of the playerbase) that "x deliberate design choice is arbitrary and OP and must be replaced so Red Ballsack can organize a tourney advertising their dumb drink" (aka backseat balancing) I'm sorry to say this but ESports only actually benefits the few players that involve themselves within that scene, and companies that sponser those players; rather than the actual company that made the game or majority of said game's playerbase. If you want professional sports, grab a football and go touch grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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