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An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM


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How to save competitive (1v1 high-ranked Supremacy) AoM

 

5.jpg.0c5897a96265af5275bc8ec7e8b7dc60.jpg    8.jpg.55532ee553a37a76ee0e3907baf7f3e7.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Table of Contents

 

  • Edit History

 

  • Definitions
    • i Common definitions
    • ii Critical definitions

 

  • FAQ #1

 

  • How to save competitive AoM
    •  
    • 1 Remove AoT
      • 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
      • 1.1 On feedback
    •  
    • 2 Tweaks
      • 2.0 God Powers tweaking introduction
        • 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's
        • 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
      • 2.1 Favor tweaking
      • 2.2 Free units tweaking
      • 2.3 Water tweaking
      • 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    •  
    • 3 DLC's
      • 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees)
      • 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative
      • 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas

 

  • Conclusion

 

  • FAQ #2

 

  • Sources

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit History

 

 

History of major edits

1.01 (1/14/23) Removal: original title: An Open Letter to AoM Managers and Developers Regarding 1v1 High-Ranked Competitive Aom | Explanation: new title: An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM

1.02 (1/15/23) Removal: "Funny" things | Explanation: Brevity

1.03 (1/19/23) Section 2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's

1.04 (3/4/23) Section 1.0 - AQ: further explanained

1.05 (3/15/23) Section 1.0's ending note

1.06 (3/26/23) Section 2.2 - Free units tweaks: additions

1.07 (3/30/23) Section FAQ: additions

1.08 (4/29/23) Section 1.0 - AQ's "strategy" explanation

1.09 (5/7/23)

Section 1.0 - AQ's ending note

Removal: Norse Tweaking (originally Section 2.4) | Explanation: Tech-trees ("civilizations") must have their identities

1.10 (5/24/23) Removal: Age of Empires Forums introduction | Explanation: Brevity

1.11 (6/14/23) Section 1.0's Norse explanations moved to Post Miscellaneous

Author's note: This was not a reaction to Voobly tournament statistics.

1.12 (7/7/23) Removal: Section 1.0 - AQ's ending note | Explanation: Brevity

1.13 (8/6/23) Section 2.3 - Water tweaking: Water's macro-meta alternative

1.14 (8/11/23)

Section FAQ #1

Section FAQ #2

1.15 (9/4/23) Section 1.0 - AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue: Condensed version (beginning)

1.16 (10/8/23) Section FAQ #2 - "Can't there be a compromise?": additions

Author's note: Otherwise, there is no point in following these suggestions.

1.17 (11/19/23) Chess introduction moved to Post Miscellaneous

Author's note: This was not a reaction to Voobly tournament statistics.

 

 

 

The last five minor edits:

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "Can't there be a compromise?"
      • Other bad ideas:
    • "We don't need to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Atlanteans, Titans, or maps - the game is already balanced - haven't you seen the statistics?"
  • ...
  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Remove the announcement for:
    • Hp-damaging area-of-effect GP's deal full damage to friendly units'/buildings' HP
      • This would punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b).
  • ...
  • Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas
    • Idea: Create a short epic campaign, highlighting the imbalances of AoT's epic core mechanics.
  • ...
  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT:
    • 2TC's
  • ...
  • Section FAQ #1
    • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"

 

 

 

 History of some micro edits since September 2023

Spoiler

12/4/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "We don't need to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Atlanteans, Titans, or maps - the game is already balanced - haven't you seen the statistics?"

 

11/30/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
    • 2TC'S
      • With map control and streaming resources, the potential has been unlocked - that is why AoT players don't mind:

 

11/29/2023

 

  • Section Conclusion
    • Lowered Population cap meant:
      • In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design!
    • Fewer "civilization" (tech-tree) units meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter.

 

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "Can't there be a compromise?"
      • Other bad ideas:
        • Bad idea: Units created under AQ are produced slower.

 

11/27/2023

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Wall redzoning alternative - idea:
      • Moved to section Bad Ideas
    • Hp-damaging area-of-effect GP's deal full damage to friendly units'/buildings' HP
      • This would punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b).

 

11/19/2023

 

  • Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
    • Lure: 1,500

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Wall redzoning alternative - idea:
      • Wall-connectors and Short Wall-segments are always 50 HP, regardless of upgrades.
    • Remove the announcement for
      • This allows for new tactics due to...
      • God-Power announcements punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched...
      • Players can always F7 to scout. (Re-added)

 

10/21/2023

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Researching God Powers are announced and cancelled GP's have a cooldown penalty

 

  • Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas
    • Idea: Create an epic campaign, highlighting the imbalances of AoT's epic core mechanics.
    • Idea: Make a new Campaign as a Multiplayer tutorial for high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy without Age of Free Insurance™:

 

10/15/2023

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Wall redzoning alternative - idea:
      • Walls shorter than the standard/longest Wall-segment have significantly lower HP.

 

  • Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas
    • Idea: Free-to-play?
      • * Why do players tolerate ads (and piracy) on third-party multiplayer platforms, but not for the official servers?

 

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "Can't there be a compromise?"
      • Other bad ideas:
        • Bad idea: Atlanteans, Chinese, and new "civilizations" (tech-trees) are locked behind ratings.

 

10/8/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "Can't there be a compromise?"
      • Regarding the addition of AQ to any non-ranked matches...

 

  • Section Conclusion
    • AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are:
      • Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls

 

10/7/2023

 

  • Section 2.1 Free units tweaking
    • Regarding free military
      • Loki's Mu-spawns
        • Duration (re-added)

 

  • Section Conclusion
    • Lowered Population cap meant:
      • Population becomes a "resource":...
      • Prices of buildings/units were also scaled for this sandbox.
      • Smaller maps (and their implications).

 

9/20/2023

 

  • Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
    • Lure: 2,100
    • Great Hunt: 900

 

9/18/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
    • 2TC'S
      • "Retards match micro-meta, as players can..."
      • "Hastens match macro-meta, allowing players to..."
    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • Third section
        • "By 'standardizing' unit production timings, AQ also allows build orders to be copied..."

 

  • Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
    • Lure: 2,750
    • Prosperity: 1.9x

 

9/12/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT

    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • First section
        • Re-edited

 

9/10/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT

    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • First section
        • Re-edited

 

9/9/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT

    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • Re-edited

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Add 1 Wall-connector distance redzoning to these buildings
      • Explained

 

9/8/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT

    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • Re-edited

 

  • Section 2.4
    • Remove announcement for:
      • Remove the announcement for:

        • Completed Advancings
        • Completed God Power research
        • Completed Town Centers
        • Garrisoned Relics

 

9/7/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #1
    • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"
      • Re-edited

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
    • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue
      • Re-edited

 

  • Section 2.1 Free units tweaking
    • Regarding free military
      • "As an unintended bonus for the time limit..." (re-added)
      • Loki's Mu-spawns
        • Private features (re-added)

 

  • Section 2.3 Water tweaking
    • Spoiler section: The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta.
      • Water's macro-meta alternative
        • Explanation

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Add 1 Wall-connector distance redzoning to these buildings
      • Re-edited

 

9/6/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #1
    • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"
      • "Due to the increased requirements of..."

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
    • AQ section
      • Spoiler section (re-edited)
      • "If 2TC's turned AoT into a 'spiritual successor' of AoE2..."

 

  • Section Conclusion
    • Smaller maps
      • Line-of-Sight/scouting has more prominence

 

  • Section FAQ #2
    • "What if nobody buys this game because Managers/Developers applied this letter's suggestions?"

 

9/5/2023

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
    • 2TC
      • Re-edited
    • AQ section
      • Spoiler section (re-edited)

 

9/4/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #1
    • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"
      • "Consider: What if Microsoft introduced those features into AoE2?"
      • "Gameplay-wise, free God Powers and 'The Titans'' core mechanics..."

 

  • Section 1.0 Remove everything of AoT
  • AQ section
    • Spoiler section (first)

 

  • Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
    • Nidhogg
      • Removed

 

  • Section 2.3 Water tweaking
    • Spoiler section: The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta.
      • Add Water Myth Units for every Minor God?
      • Remove Water Myth Units from every Minor God?

 

  • Section 3.2 Miscellaneous ideas
    • Free players see ads post-match and in the main menu
    • In-game currency can be spent to remove ads from post-match and the main menu

 

9/2/2023

 

  • Section FAQ #1
    • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"
      • Re-edited

 

  • Section 2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)
    • Bolt
      • Ox Carts and transport units re-added

 

  • Section 2.2 Free units tweaking
    • Regarding free scouting
      • Hippocampus
        • Idea 3: No changes

 

  • Section 2.3 Water tweaking
    • Shooting Docks as a researchable Tech in Heroic Age?

 

  • Section 2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking
    • Remove announcement for:
      • Garrisoned Relics
      • God Power Invocations
    • Remove F4

 

  • Section 3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees)
    • Reorganized

 

  • Section 3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative
    • Reorganized

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Definitions

 

  • i Common definitions
    • Spoiler

       

      • Title definitions
        •  
        • AoM: Age of Mythology
        • Vanilla: Original game (Age of Mythology, not The Titans expansion pack)
        •  
        • AoT: Age of Mythology: The Titans (expansion pack)
        • TT: The Titans (expansion pack)
        •  
        • AoMEE: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition
        • EE: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition
        • TotD: Tale of the Dragon (expansion pack)
        •  
        • AoE2: Age of Empires II
        • SC2: Starcraft II

       

      • Common definitions
        • 2TC: The feature to contruct Town Centers on Settlements in the second Age (AoT) instead of the third (Vanilla)
        • AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue: The feature to repeatedly create the selected units from a building
        • BO: Build Order (a list (outside the game) of units to queue to achieve a particular goal)
        • Boom: To aggressively pursue economic progression
        • Casual: Those who chronically play any of the following:
          • Team games
          • Unranked games (any level)
          • Mid-to-low ranked 1v1 Supremacy games
          • Mods
          • Single-Player
        • Cheese:
          1. The solid mass of fermented milk
          2. Gaming: A distasteful game-mechanic/strategy/tactic, like the odor of certain cheeses, bordering unsportsmanlike conduct in that the player on the receiving end cannot properly respond to them within their logistics comfort-zone
          3. Gaming: A tactic/strategy disapproved by an opponent, typically used in the early game
        • DLC: Downloadable Content (or Expansion Packs)
        • Entropy: "Randomness"
        • Fog of War: The map blackness/shadow covering areas unscouted/scouted by the Player
        • GP: God Power
        • HP: Hitpoints/health
        • Kite: To purposefully retreat, baiting the opponent's units into following
        • Lame:
          1. Crippled
          2. Gaming: One who (over-)relies on a game-mechanic/strategy/tactic, like a crutch, in order to win
          3. Gaming: A tactic/strategy disapproved by an opponent, typically used in the late game
        • LOS: Line of sight (area of vision of a unit/building)
        • Main: The player's best/original Major God
        • MOBA: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (a game genre)
        • MU: Myth unit
        • OP: Overpowered
        • Redzoning: The inability to build Walls around a particular Resource as indicated by the red shade on the Wall-icon cursor
        • RTS: Real-Time Strategy (a game genre)
        • Rush: To attack early and quickly, typically untelegraphed, especially in the early game (and without researching Hunting Dogs (original/early definition))
        • Smurf: A player playing under an alias
        • TC: Town Center
        • Vanilla: Original game (Age of Mythology, not The Titans expansion pack)

       

 

  • ii Critical definitions
    •  
    • APM: Actions (keypresses, mouse clicks) per minute; often misused as "micro"
    •  
    • Micro: To (verb) or how (noun) one manages their units or buildings; often misused as "APM"
    • Macro: To (verb) or how (noun) one manages their production/upgrades/economy/etc.
    •  
    • Meta:
      1. "Outside the box"
      2. The current tactics or strategies most effective at winning the game, can be separated into:
        • Micro-meta ("micro-" as in "small", not, "micro"): The tangible meta that can be used in a game
          • "Against Heimdall, it's better to Sphinx/Axe instead of Fast Heroic or 2TC..."
          • "3v3? You two rush Blue while I (middle) Fast Heroic..."
        • Macro-meta ("macro-" as in "big", not, "macro")The general conclusion based from the context of the overall micro-meta
          • "Loki beats Gaia..."
          • "There is only one way to play this game..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FAQ #1

 

FAQ #1 - Table of Contents

  • "How many Age of Mythology games are there?"
  • "How many multiplayer platforms are there?"/"Is the Open Letter outdated?"

 

Spoiler

 

 

"How many Age of Mythology games are there?"

 

PC:

 

Ensemble Studios:

  • 2002: Age of Mythology
    • Introduced imbalanced mechanics: Free GP's
  • 2003: Age of Mythology: The Titans (expansion pack)
    • Introduced imbalanced mechanics: Free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Titans
    • Introduced a new "civilization" (tech-tree): Atlanteans

 

Skybox Labs:

  • 2014: Age of Mythology: Extended Edition
    • Although built on The Titans, it introduced:
      • A new unit to each civilization to balance their intended weakness (civilization identity)
      • Laggy Multiplayer (because of either Steam's dedicated-servers or P2P per regional matchup)
        • Spoiler
          • Steam Settings 👉 In-Game 👉 Steam Networking:
            • "Default" (do not select if laggy)Automatic switching between "Always" and "Never"
            • "Always": Always connect to Steam's dedicated-servers
            • "Never": Never connect to Steam's dedicated-servers

                    https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/1433-AD20-F11D-B71E

          • I.e.: While some players may benefit with one setting, others may need to switch settings every few games, depending on their (opponent's) region.
      • Regressed textures overhaul (water, landscape, trees, etc.)
      • Bloated graphical features; degraded performance (even when disabled)
      • Broken AI (easier to fight against)
      • Broken Campaign (easier to complete)

 

Skybox Labs, and Forgotten Empires:

  • 2015: Age of Mythology EX: Tale of the Dragon (expansion pack)
    • Introduced a new "civilization" (tech-tree): Chinese

 

 

Board game:

Eagle Games:

  • 2003: Age of Mythology: The Boardgame

 

Nintendo DS:

Griptonite Games:

  • 2008: Age of Empires: Mythologies

 

 

 

 

 

"How many multiplayer platforms are there?"/"Is the Open Letter outdated?"

 

 

There are three main platforms for AoT multiplayer after Microsoft shut down AoM's ESO (Ensemble Studios Online) servers in 2010:

 

  • Gameranger:
    •  
    • Balance™ maintained by: None (The Titans Patch 1.03)
      • The epitome of imbalance from the core mechanics introduced by The Titans expansion pack.
        • Consequences:
          • The game plays by itself (macro-meta).
          •  
          • There is only one way to play the game (micro-meta and macro-meta).
    •  
    • Demographics: Casual > competitive
      • Few 1v1's, mainly team games, mainly mods
      • Population: 100 - 300 online during peak hours?
    •  
    • Lobby system (peer-to-peer connection)
    •  
    • Requirements:
      • Gameranger client
      • The Titans Patch 1.03
      • AoT

 

  • Voobly:
    •  
    • Balance™ maintained by: Dedicated balance™ team https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/showtopic=242441
      • Seeking balance from TT 1.03 by: moderately equalizing all "civilizations" (tech-trees) and liberally buffing unpopular gods.
        • Consequences:
          • The game still plays by itself (macro-meta).
            • Susceptibility to (rotational) balance™ patches (which creates the illusion that the game is "unsolved"/"balanced™" with the variety of new tactics made available by adjusted unit stats (for the current playerbase), masking the imbalances of the macro-meta (from the core mechanics of The Titans)).
          •  
          • (Official, fan-made) "Random" maps of near-symmetry.
          •  
          • Unpopular Major/Minor Gods of The Titans Patch 1.03 receive unnecessarily powerful GP's and perks (which made other Major/Minor Gods unpopular).
    •  
    • Demographics: Competitive > casual
    •  
    • Lobby system (peer-to-peer connection)
    • Ratings system
    •  
    • Requirements:
      • Voobly client
      • AoT

 

  • Steam ("ESO 2"):
    •  
    • Balance™ maintained by: The current maintainers of AoMEE (undedicated) https://meta-plays.com/forums/topic/1426-ee-patch-28-most-complete-and-correct-changelog/
      • Seeking balance from TT 1.03 by: liberally equalizing all "civilizations" (tech-trees) and moderately buffing unpopular gods.
        • Consequences:
          • The game still plays by itself (macro-meta).
            • Susceptibility to (rotational) balance™ patches (which creates the illusion that the game is "unsolved"/"balanced™" with the variety of new tactics made available by adjusted unit stats (for the current playerbase), masking the imbalances of the macro-meta (from the core mechanics of The Titans)).
          •  
          • Resource-equity "random" maps.
          •  
          • "Civilizations" (tech-trees) lose a part of their identities with the introduction of units designed to supplement their intended weakness.
    •  
    • Demographics: Casual > competitive
    •  
    • Based off of ESO (dedicated Steam servers or peer-to-peer connection):
      • (Poor) Lobby system
      • Ratings system
      • Matchmaking system
    •  
    • Requirements:
      • Steam client
      • AoMEE (DLC is not required to play with DLC players)

 

Spoiler

Obsolete since early 2023 due to Voobly's new ratings system.

The conversion of real-ratings between Steam and Voobly is variable as Steam's deflate during the weekends or holidays (excluding high-ranked rr).

https://imgur.com/a/V21HOVb

https://www.reddit.com/r/AgeofMythology/comments/bb2n78/converting_ratings_between_platforms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 Remove AoT

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

1.0a Remove everything of AoT

 

In order to appeal the game to new players and Casuals, the features introduced in the rushed expansion pack forever changed AoM's competitive (high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy) landscape by:

  • Automating the game
  • Destroying (macro-meta) balance
  • Rewarding unprepared/casual/lazy/auto-pilot/boomy playstyles
  • Downplaying scouting

 

 

 

 

Free Myth Units:

  • Punish players with cheese.
    • Spoiler
  • Punish players who do not have access to a "water" Minor God on Water Maps.
  • Reward players for simply advancing, with:
    • Undeserved/"inflated" offense/defense
    • Fast MU's that:
      • Scout the entire map for free
      • Raid enemy hunt or Gold Mines
    • Slow or ranged MU's, basically functioning as free, mobile towers

An egregious example being Hathor, spawning both a flying transport (15-unit carry) and a ranged unit that could kill a villager in two shots! What should have amounted to a grand total of 350 Gold and 30 Favor and 34 seconds of training time was instead a blank check. Two free Myth Units!

What was even the point of having MU costs?

Age of Free Insurance™!

 

 

 

Shooting Docks (garrisoned Docks can fire arrows) punish the player who optimized their BO.

Against a lone arrow ship or two, the unprepared defender can:

  • Tuck away their fishing ships and deal damage for the meantime, protecting their:
    • Dock HP
    • Fishing rights™
  • Queue a military ship at their convenience.

So, unless the aggressor commits to investing in a larger fleet, Shooting Docks punish:

  • Early aggression
  • Small raids (any time)

And by the time the Boomer/Defender Advances to Classical Age, they'd have an extra Villager or 2, thereby solidifying Water dominance from their extra lumber production.

Whatever happened to "first come, first served"? The game basically plays by itself: You snooze, They lose!

Age of Free Insurance™!

 

 

 

Titans* punish late-game players by enabling the undeserving player to soft-reset the winning player's progress by trashing their bases and efforts they've put into establishing map control.

So, instead of:

  • Opting for a Wonder
  • Establishing a decent trade route
  • Strategically placing towers on the map

They get a get-out-of-jail-free card!

 

 

 

High-hunt maps (of The Titans expansion pack)* punish the defender who was denied of hunt (e.g.: Norse aggression, Shifting Sands onto hunters, Athena Rush).

By this point, the game already plays by itself; the aggressor can either:

  • Amass "infinite" hunt-based military to steamroll.
  • Advance to the next Age quicker with a free God Power (and free MU's and 2TC's) to dominate (e.g.: Flaming Weapons on Migdols, Ancestors, Underworld) - Age of Free Insurance™!

 

 

 

Atlanteans:

  • Atlantean players have more than "twice" the amount of time than AoM civilizations to focus on their micro-meta, as their Citizens:
    • Are the rough equivalent of 2.3 Villagers.
    • Do not need drop-off buildings/units (e.g.: Granaries/Ox-Carts).
  • On Water Maps:
    • Their Hammer Ships have range.
    • They have access to offensive Water MU's in Classical Age.
    • Their Arrow Ships are extremely fast (7.25 speed), allowing them to kite from arrows and perform unprecedented guerilla attacks.
    • Atlanteans can comfortably Advance to 4:30 (or earlier). Shooting Docks are no issue to them when most civilizations are still struggling to Advance to 4:30 - 5:00.
  • Myth Unit philosophy:
    • Regarding Heka Gigantes: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios made Heroes immune to MU active Special-attacks.
    • Regarding Stymphalian Birds: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive flying MU's in Mythic Age, not Heroic Age.
    • Regarding Carnivora, Nereid, Servant: There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive Water MU's in Heroic Age, not Classical Age.
  • Turmas:
    • There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had raiding (fast) ranged-units in Heroic Age.
    • They are quite literally Egyptian Chariot Archers (~90 HP and 5.00 speed) in Classical Age and deal bonus damage to counter-infantry and counter-archers!
  • More than one free GP granted per Age: There was a reason why Ensembl - Age of Free Insurance™!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2TC's:

  • Turns AoT into a "spiritual successor" of AoE2, a game of boomy longplay.
  • Turns Classical Age into the new Heroic Age.
  • Retards match micro-meta, as players can:
    • Secure resources and map control quicker than investing in Classical Age fighting.
    • Sit in the corner of the map.
  • Hastens match macro-meta, allowing players to bypass phases of match exposition:
    • Classical Age fighting.
    • Scouting and planning for conquests/expansions in Heroic Age.
    • Heroic Age itself (quicker Mythic Age Advancing due to resources accumulated from 2TC's).

With 2 Villagers pumping out non-stop from 2TC'S, the game is already automated to the same, lame late-game; the game plays by itself!

What used to be a savage landscape of Classical Age fighting, players vying for extra PopulationVillagersand map-control/mini-fortresses for Heroic Age, is now a Boomer's paradise!

Other than a few exceptions, what is undeniable is that the majority of matches result in 2TC'S.

...

With 2TC's, the late-game potential has been unlocked early on - which is why AoT players don't mind:

  • Larger maps
  • Symmetrical maps
  • New "civilizations" (tech-trees)
  • (Rotational) Balance™ patches
  • Longer games
  • Transforming AoM into AoE2

AoM's sandbox (e.g.: map size, prices, stats...) was not meant to hold 2TC's.

Please read Section Conclusion regarding AoM's design.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AQ/Autoqueue/Auto-queue

 

"With AQ, lower-APM players can outsmart faster players; removing it will dumb down the game".

  • Reality: AQ dumbs down the game by reducing prioritization between micro and macro, inflating player APM.

 

"AQ allows me to strategize more; I don't need to spam 'H' and 'V' every 14 seconds".

  • Reality: AQ allows players more time to execute tactics.
  • Regarding hotkeys: What does "real-time" in RTS mean?

 

"To Managers/Developers: please do not listen to this inner circle of elites; their stale gameplay, no AQ, will destroy our already small and fragmented communities!"

  • Reality:
    •  
    • AQ lowers match variability/spontaneity.
    •  
    • Standardized timings:
      • Standardizes "meta" (macro-meta):
        • Standardizes balance (micro-meta):
          • Standardizes maps:
            • Standardizes Build Orders:
              • Standardizes...
    •  
    • Middle-class and top players leave as they are not rewarded for microing outside the established macro-meta.
    •  
    • Casual players demand for new content (because the game plays by itself (macro-meta)).
    •  
    • Old players (hailed as saviors of the game) create (rotational) balance™ patches (to increase match variability/spontaneity), leading to:
      •  
      • The creation of (official) "random" maps of near-symmetry (as a consequence of: perfected macro (AQ) and wise balance decisions for the micro-meta (of the current/remaining playerbase)), leading to:
        •  
        • (Further) Standardization/"perfection" of gameplay/boomy-longplay (macro-meta), leading to:
          •  
          • Every competitive games' (re-)realized end-stage/"death" (cult status) - symptoms:
            • Low population (or long wait times)
            • A concentrated playerbase of:
              • (Leftover/new) Pros
              • Casuals
            • Team games
            • Proliferation of (Casual) mods/modes/maps
    •  
    • Repeat.

...

 

AQ does allow the player to micro more. It is good for the micro-meta (please read Section Definitions' ii Critical Definitions).

However, many players fail to realize that it establishes and locks the macro-meta (please read Section Definitions' ii Critical Definitions).

It simply streamlines production, thereby removing the burden of prioritization, creating the illusion that the match was won by sheer skill and "strategy", when in reality, it only serves to inflate both players' APM to executing the same macro-meta gameplay of near-perfect logistical management, turning AoT akin to a 20-minute "repetitive testing simulator" instead of a RTS game.

 

Real-Time Strategy is a game genre in which players execute multiple real-time decisions in response to their opponents' moves across a large map, all the while restricted by their screen size and mouse/keyboard input; it is a game of immediate wits, the "'Strategy'" in RTS.

Having the insight to prioritize on the available options does not equate to tedious meticulousness, a flawed argument disgruntled Casuals commonly use, "If you remove AQ, you must also remove all hotkeys".

AQ basically masks "low intelligence" and steals the glory from worthy players by robbing them of the opportunity to fully utilize and show off their skill (APM, attentiveness, prioritization, intuition) and simultaneously robbing viewers of an interesting game because nearly all of AoT's "meta" (macro-meta) is a byproduct of AQ'ing from 2TC's.

 

AQ does not belong in PC RTS and is better suited as a quality-of-life improvement for platforms with even less input or screen size, such as the console or smartphone.

...

 

By diminishing the role of prioritization ("repetitiveness" (Casuals' definition)), AQ turns AoT into a "spiritual successor" of Starcraft, a game of intense microing due to its simplified macro.

 

By "standardizing" unit-production timings, AQ also allows Build Orders to be easily copied/executed, further "standardizing" games. (And inevitably raising questions regarding Vanilla Random Maps' generation/seeds).

 

By resolving logistical inconsistencies resulting from player inattention, AQ also removes match entropy, therefore increasing the need™ to resort to (rotational) balance™ patches and (official, fan-made) "random" maps of near-symmetry - the irony! (Because with AQ, the game is so standardized that any small map-imbalance will throw off the entire trajectory of the disadvantaged Boomer's macro-meta!)

...

 

AoT players fool themselves in thinking AQ saves them from tedious button spamming, allowing them to execute more "strategy".

If "strategy" (military) could be described as long-term, abstract, planning, and "tactics" (military) as short-term, concrete, performing....

Then what AQ proponents are really saying is: AQ allows them to have more time in executing their tactics (i.e., the micro-meta).

Which is the point of this entire topic.

"Real-Time Tactics" is a more suitable title for the genre of RTS.

 

AoT players would often accuse AQ abolitionists of being "braindead APM junkies" or "hotkey supremacists" who want to:

  • Remove "strategic" elements in favor of mechanical prowess; "dumbing down the game"
  • Make the game unnecessarily difficult and "unfun" for the average player; "elitism"

However . . .

AQ basically hand-holds AoT players, enabling them to execute grand "strategies" from their years of being familiarized with Advance/attack/unit-production timings.

A quick look at their games reveals they need only 2 - 3 control groups (or 1 - maybe even 0 - the metato demonstrate their complete mastery of the game and superior intellect.

The age of mindlessly spamming hotkeys are over, for with AQ, they now have more time to tediously spam mouse buttons instead.

In other words . . .

The Titans has never been a game of real-time "strategy"; it was always an automated simulator for players to adaptively execute tactics the quickest with a mouse.

AoT players are literally doing the same thing as non-AQ players (but better (and artificially)).

Yet, non-AQ players are accused of doing the same things which AoT players cannot do without AQ!

How about that for GATEKEEPING NEW PLAYERS?

 

Strategy (military), like BO crafting, is done prior to the match. It is simply preparation.

That is why recorded games exist, so players can review their matches and avoid making the same mistakes by adjusting their strategies next time.

 

If they cannot comprehend:

  • That hotkeys are simply placeholders of thoughts/ideas, like translated "words" RTS players use in their "game of debate"...
  • That prioritization is akin to knowing when to "argue" in their "game of debate", rationally choosing the best placeholder/"hotkeys"/"words" to form elaborate "sentences"/decisions with their limited time/"air"/"breath"...

... then it cannot be helped.

 

Spoiler
  • Standardized 📏 macro 💹
    • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  Standardized 📏 timings ⏱️
      • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  Standardized 📏 matches 🎮
        • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  Strategy (military) 📉
        • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  Tactics (military) 📈
        • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  Mainstream 🌐 tactics (military)/BO's
        • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🙄 matches/streams/recorded-games
        • point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  "1️⃣" way to play the 🎮 (macro-meta)
          • 🏆  players 😕  point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  👋  for other 💻/🎮/👨‍🌾
          • 🫠  players 🥱  point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🙏🌎 "civilizations" (tech-trees),  💪 GP's,  🎉 modes,  🔥 mods,  🎲 maps,  🌀 balance
          • 👴  players 😮  point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🏗️: 🚪 balance   point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.pngpoint3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png   🏗️:  "random" maps of near-🈸️   point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.pngpoint3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.pngpoint3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🏗️:  🤡 mods/modes/"civilizations" (tech-trees)
          • 🚼  players  point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  😕 or 🫠 or 👴

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

😕  read  📩   point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🫡

🫠  read  📩   point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  🤡

👴  read  📩   point3.png.cc9c10c72cb38656a3e1308bf2fb29c8.png  😠

 

It is truly amazing to see how unaware they are or in denial to any of these points, especially to the unintended consequences of automated macro as well as their hypocrisy.

 

And then they go about, giddily flaunting their recorded games like a valedictorian's diploma from community college, ever insisting on how they won by their own efforts and "strategies", when their matches were as organic as the degrees of Ivy-League-school Legacy Students.

 

Call AQ defenders out for what they really are: braindead mouse spammers, Atty Mains/origins, boomy-civ gatekeepers, 1-BO strategists, unimaginative players, new nice fanboys, happy mouse-clicking Casuals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Assuming both players were of equal skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Players nowadays are ever constantly seeking for new experiences.

Casuals get high on anything that brings about a semblance of "new" gameplay, be it maps, modes, or mods. Balance be damned.

Team games hinge on power spikes and on abusing the "meta". Balance™ be damned.

 

Why are so many players defaulting to team games or mods?

Because they are seeking for entropy, for randomness. BALANCE™ BE DAMNED!

Locked by AoT's core mechanics, players have little space to flesh out their creativity and true micro.

Team games and mods are the last resort for AoT players as those give temporary bouts of "fresh" air to the stale, cramped playstyles of the stinking auto-pilot 2TC/AQ/free-GP "meta".

No wonder why the majority do not touch high-ranked competitive 1v1 Supremacy. It smells.

 

Many have attempted to solve the problem, but they only see the micro-meta, never the macro-meta!

The only version of "balance" the balance™ team ever do is maintaining the well-oiled machine that is the 2TC-AQ meta!

Micro-meta is downstream macro-meta, downstream AoT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1.1 On feedback

 

If you are asking AoT Pros for feedback, you'll only get pro-AoT opinions.

They are the first responders to say maps must be standardized™/symmetrical and civilizations need™ more™ balancing™, but on the issues of free MU's or 2TC's, they are silent.

And no wonder, because those offer variety to their Mains: boomier civilizations.

 

5.jpg.0c5897a96265af5275bc8ec7e8b7dc60.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Tweaks

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

2.0 God Powers tweaking introduction

 

 

A recurring theme in AoT and AoM: the player didn't earn it, but they get it for free.

 

That is why players would often hear complaints, like:

  • "Nerf SS"
  • "Nerf Zeus"
  • "Nerf Ragnarok"
  • "A/E OP"

 

 

Balancing™ God Powers will never solve any of the problems because the game will still look like this because of power spikes!

1.PNG.bb7087beae9f2a2c45e38d1b0d4be62a.PNG

 

 

Power spikes are powerful because of the timing at which they were used.


Consider: Why does Deathmatch restrict players from using God Powers after Advancing?
Consider: Why do MU's cost resources?

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.0a Idea 1: Weaker GP's

 

Alternatively, if free God Powers are to be kept....

 

Spoiler

 

1. Revert all GP balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03.

 

2. And...

 

 

Greek GreekIcon.png.11fc5044012f1a5668c2dc6597bd20a6.png Archaic Age ArchaicAge.png.ea3e124075939cdcbf03860c4b1d30d5.png GP's:

  • Bolt:
    • Deals 80% ratio-damage:*
      • Ox Carts*
      • Rocs*
      • Transport ships*
      • Ulfsarks*
      • Villagers*
    • Deals 100% ratio-damage: Everything else*
    • * For example: If a Roc has 10 HP left, Bolt would deal only 8 damage (80% ratio damage). 
  • Lure (1,000 Food): 250 Food

Greek GreekIcon.png.11fc5044012f1a5668c2dc6597bd20a6.png Classical Age ClassicalAge.png.1e2b9ad2eb782971ae0ca4b08b6874ad.png GP's:

  • Ceasefire (60 seconds): 15 seconds
  • Pestilence (45 seconds): 20 seconds
  • Restoration (8 seconds): 1 second

Greek GreekIcon.png.11fc5044012f1a5668c2dc6597bd20a6.png Heroic Age HeroicAge.png.56d34f7d5c7807a5090f8b923c115e78.png GP's:

  • Bronze (90 seconds): 15 seconds
  • Curse (800 HP): 450 HP
  • Underworld (1,800 HP): 25% HP (450 HP)

Greek GreekIcon.png.11fc5044012f1a5668c2dc6597bd20a6.png Mythic Age MythicAge.png.f275632515b6aa9dcb1138e506f78c21.png GP's:

  • Earthquake (12 seconds): 2 seconds
  • Lightning Storm (15 seconds): 7 seconds
  • Plenty Vault (3 resources/second): 0.75 resources/second

 


Egytian EgyptianIcon.png.40c685cd4ad734ec40aa5b8c99d1c95e.png Archaic Age ArchaicAge.png.ea3e124075939cdcbf03860c4b1d30d5.png GP's:

  • Prosperity (50 seconds): 20 seconds
  • Rain (60 seconds): 15 seconds
  • Vision (20 seconds): 5 seconds

Egytian EgyptianIcon.png.40c685cd4ad734ec40aa5b8c99d1c95e.png Classical Age ClassicalAge.png.1e2b9ad2eb782971ae0ca4b08b6874ad.png GP's:

  • Eclipse (65 seconds): 15 seconds
  • Shifting Sands (4,000 HP of friendly units):
    • Can transport 450 HP of friendly units
    • Cannot transport:
      • Enemy units
      • Mother Nature units

Egytian EgyptianIcon.png.40c685cd4ad734ec40aa5b8c99d1c95e.png Heroic Age HeroicAge.png.56d34f7d5c7807a5090f8b923c115e78.png GP's:

  • Ancestors (60 seconds): 20 seconds
  • Citadel (10 population): No population
  • Locust Swarm (20 Hack, 27 seconds):
    • 1 Hack
    • 10 seconds

Egytian EgyptianIcon.png.40c685cd4ad734ec40aa5b8c99d1c95e.png Mythic Age MythicAge.png.f275632515b6aa9dcb1138e506f78c21.png GP's:

  • Meteor (15 seconds): 10 seconds
  • Son of Osiris (420 HP): 25% HP (105 HP)
  • Tornado (20 seconds): 3 seconds

 

 

Norse NorseIcon.png.73cc7e37d26a1814bbc9447ae9f2d884.png Archaic Age ArchaicAge.png.ea3e124075939cdcbf03860c4b1d30d5.png GP's:

  • Dwarven Mine (500, 1,000, 3,000, 6,000 Gold): 200, 400, 1,200, 2,400 Gold
  • Great Hunt (750 Food): 200 Food
  • Spy (27 LOS): 6 LOS

Norse NorseIcon.png.73cc7e37d26a1814bbc9447ae9f2d884.png Classical Age ClassicalAge.png.1e2b9ad2eb782971ae0ca4b08b6874ad.png GP's:

  • Forest Fire: 5 seconds
  • Undermine:
    • Cannot automatically destroy Walls or Towers
    • 25% potential max damage ("potential max damage" is 100% damage if Undermine was Invoked directly on a building (instead of it traveling))

Norse NorseIcon.png.73cc7e37d26a1814bbc9447ae9f2d884.png Heroic Age HeroicAge.png.56d34f7d5c7807a5090f8b923c115e78.png GP's:

  • Flaming Weapons (60 seconds): 15 seconds
  • Frost (50 seconds): 15 seconds

Norse NorseIcon.png.73cc7e37d26a1814bbc9447ae9f2d884.png Mythic Age MythicAge.png.f275632515b6aa9dcb1138e506f78c21.png GP's:

  • Nidhogg (2,000 HP)25% HP (500 HP)
  • Ragnarok:
    • Either:
      • 20% Villagers (Gatherers and Dwarves)
      • 100% Dwarves?

 

 

 

 

 

2.0b Idea 2: Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only)

 

Spoiler

 

 

Requirement 1:

God Powers (single-use only) can only be researched in Town Center TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png.

 

Explanation:

  •  
  •  
  • The purpose of researchable God Powers (single-use only) is to:
    • Prevent undeserved power spikes
    • Free the players' playstyles, undenied by "GP chess"
  •  ... by allowing players to trade their economy (Villager production AoM_Villager_Greek_Icon.png.5142934a0b10ed1376f9a087d12a702f.png) for a powerful, game-changing "spell".
  •  
  •  
  • Bad ideas:
    • If God Powers (single-use only) could be researched in:
      • The toolbar, it would still create an undeserved power spike because it is a simply a time bomb after the player Advances.
      • Temples, it would still create an undeserved power spike because the player's economy is unaffected, and it would also punish Norse players who queue Hersirs from Temples.

 

 

 

Requirement 2:

God Powers (single-use only) cost time and Favor to research.

 

Ideally, as with MU's, each God Powers should have their own research time and resource costs.

 

But, as for simplicity (for the Developers):

  • Archaic Age ArchaicAge.png.ea3e124075939cdcbf03860c4b1d30d5.png GP's cost: 30 seconds, 0 Favor
  • Classical Age ClassicalAge.png.1e2b9ad2eb782971ae0ca4b08b6874ad.png GP's cost: 75 seconds, 15 Favor
  • Heroic Age HeroicAge.png.56d34f7d5c7807a5090f8b923c115e78.png GP's cost: 75 seconds, 25 Favor
  • Mythic Age MythicAge.png.f275632515b6aa9dcb1138e506f78c21.png GP's cost: 75 seconds, 30 Favor

For example: Bolt (Archaic Age GP) will always cost 30 seconds and 0 Favor even if the player is in Mythic Age.

 

Explanation:

  •  
  •  
  •  
  • This would also allow for interesting games where players could target enemy Favor buildings (Temples/Monuments) to hinder their researching a (single-use only) God Power.
  •  
  •  
  •  
  • Regarding time:
    •  
    • Archaic Age GP's 30 seconds is based off of Zeus' Bolt BoltIcon2.png.4747eeed5cd451dea85ad9ba6ec8e894.png and the Villager AoM_Villager_Greek_Icon.png.5142934a0b10ed1376f9a087d12a702f.png Training Time (14 seconds).
      • If Bolt costs 15 seconds (~1 Villager) to Invoke, it would still be beneficial for Zeus to Invoke it early on (for example, Bolting a Villager/Ulfsark building a Dock/Temple), a 1:1 loss.
      • But if Bolt costs 30 seconds (~2 Villagers) to Invoke, the Zeus player would, at the very least, be more disadvantaged for Invoking it, a 2:1 loss.
      • Spoiler
        • For reference: Early matches may have less undeserved power spikes, as these Major Gods are less likely to:
          • Zeus: Bolt builders
          • Poseidon: Steal huntables (imbalanced on low hunt maps)
          • Set: Steal huntables, teleport onto hunters (imbalanced on low hunt maps)
          • Odin: Have extra hunt (imbalanced on low hunt maps)
          • Loki: Free espionage
    •  
    • Classical/Heroic/Mythic Age GP's: 75 seconds - for reference:
      • Spoiler
        • Ceasefire CeasefireIcon.png.654e2eab288e901f72d36393de96c1a4.png: Denying rushes
        • Pestilence PestilenceIcon.png.29e5eeda67e62370f345dcb262973364.png: Denying military for 45 seconds
          • Greek Villager BarracksLonghouse_icon.png.e49c28ca9e8ddce78887fbf8a3ae109d.png/Archery-RangeArcheryRangeAOMIcon.png.c47cd65e3fe6ce3afe5b526f5461abbf.png/StablesStableaom.jpg.abaac0d34c2352420e499e0b688c1337.jpg building time: ~23 seconds
            • Training times: Hoplite (14s), Toxote (15s), Hippikon (20s/15s)
          • Egyptian Villager Barracks Longhouse_icon.png.e49c28ca9e8ddce78887fbf8a3ae109d.png building time: ~43 seconds
            • Empowered Egyptian Villager Barracks Longhouse_icon.png.e49c28ca9e8ddce78887fbf8a3ae109d.png building time: ~25 seconds
            • Training times: Spearmen (9s), Axemen (10s), Slinger (14s)
          • Norse Barracks Longhouse_icon.png.e49c28ca9e8ddce78887fbf8a3ae109d.png building time: ~28 seconds
            • Ulfsark Temple TempleAOMIcon.png.c097c20d6dceda7d02da0357ba094066.png building time: ~37 seconds
            • Training times: Ulfsark (9s/8.1s) , Throwing Axeman (16s/14.4s), Raiding Cavalry (18s/16.2s), Hersir (23s/20.7s)
        • Shifting Sands ShiftingSandsIcon.png.290eb84a13901aac9f10e9e513815375.png: Teleporting onto hunters, stealing herdables, or shifting Villagers
        • Forest Fire ForestFireIcon.png.c6028e4a0c01442cc6d594af0d9f5176.png: Disrupting Wood economy, massacring Villagers
        • Undermine UndermineIcon.png.a42ce5aff0670b3abc30523f8a54165a.png: Destroying Towers or Walls
  •  
  •  
  •  
  • Regarding Favor:
    •  
    • Archaic Age GP's Favor cost is 0, otherwise, certain playstyles would be limited, and Zeus would also have an unfair advantage.
    •  
    • Classical/Heroic/Mythic Age Favor cost - for reference:
      • Spoiler
        • 15 Favor: Scylla, Anubite, Wadjet, Petsuchos, Roc, Einherjar, Troll, Fenris Wolf Brood, Jormangund
        • 25 Favor: Manticore, Colossus, Mummy, Kraken
        • Medusa: 32 Favor
  •  
  •  
  •  
  • Bad ideas:
    •  
    • If previous Age God Powers:
      • Are free after Advancing, it would still create an undeserved power spike; it's like getting free MU's from the previous Ages; the player didn't earn for it!
      • Have lowered costs, it would still create an undeserved power spike; it's like lowering the prices of previous Age MU's!
    •  
    • If there was an announcement:
      • Any time someone begins researching a God Power (single-use only):
        • It will remove the element of surprise.
        • The announcement can be spammed (E.g.: cancel research, research, cancel research...).
        • See Section 2.4's "Remove the announcement for:".
      • Whenever a God Power (single-use only) is fully researched:
        • It will remove the element of surprise.
        • Since God Powers are player-exclusive, game-changing power spikes, they should be telegraphed.
        • See Section 2.4's "Remove the announcement for:".
    •  
    • If God Powers only cost:
      • Time, it would still create an undeserved power spike because it is simply a time bomb whenever the player Advances.
      • Favor, it would still create an undeserved power spike as it does not give the opponent sufficient time to react to it.

 

 

 

 

Idea 2 Continued...

Stronger GP's, but researchable (single-use only) tweaks:

Spoiler

 

1. Revert all GP balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03

2. God Powers (single-use only) can only be researched in Town Center

3. God Powers (single-use only) cost time and Favor to research

4. And...

 

GreekPortrait.png.549b87c501e191066308040cbac88bcd.png

Bolt BoltIcon2.png.4747eeed5cd451dea85ad9ba6ec8e894.png:

  • Deals ratio damage:
    • 50%:*
      • Nidhogg NidhoggIcon.png.61f592d11df082340e46a1709e72c45b.png*
      • Son of Osiris SonOfOsirisIcon.png.db7501133c9009af3f1ce754a898574b.png*
    • 80%:*
      • Ox Carts Ox_cart.png.d2abfd2caeb72da601b765fec5838739.png*
      • Rocs RocIcon.png.862170b7c74dd106e4f217b7eff28264.png*
      • Transport Ships Transportgreekicon.jpg.36f895590c8001dd2fb3f603170f6003.jpg*
    • 100%: Everything else*
  • * For example: If Nidhogg NidhoggIcon.png.61f592d11df082340e46a1709e72c45b.png has 2 HP left, Bolt BoltIcon2.png.4747eeed5cd451dea85ad9ba6ec8e894.png would deal only 1 HP (50% ratio damage).

Explanation:

  • Regarding Nidhogg and SoO: As Mythic Age GP's, to be killed by a mere Archaic GP is quite anti-climatic as it denies the purpose of even researching the GP (single-use only).
  • Regarding Ox Carts: Ox Carts are slow; the Norse player may have lost a considerable amount of resources by the time a replacement arrived to the resource site.
  • Regarding non-offensive transport units: If non-offensive transport units were Bolted, the player may lose more than just one unit.
  • See Section 2.0b regarding Archaic Age's GP cost philosophy.

 

Lure LureIcon.png.c184ac177d1cde730ded08f515fe5074.png:

  • Food drawn (1,000): 1,500

 

Sentinel SentinelIcon.png.8e90e1f4fc82f4b85c7cd54cfb6e3ad2.png:

  • Sentinels (4): 8

 

Pestilence PestilenceIcon.png.29e5eeda67e62370f345dcb262973364.png:

  • Length (45s): 60s

 

Bronze BronzeIcon.png.7f35992c572a11cc4ba1200ef39246b3.png:

  • Length (90s)60s
  • Hack/Pierce vulnerability (30%): 45%

 

Curse CurseIcon.png.3603d96829cedbd23f5c43f6a1700eb4.png:

  • HP (800)1,200 HP

 

Earthquake EarthquakeIcon.png.31fabf808fc70182134b718516ea5536.png:

  • Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.4)

 

Lightning Storm Lightning_StormIcon.png.05d639e8baa03e61c457061d8cc439c8.png:

  • Length (15s)20s
  • Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.4)

 

EgyptianPortrait.png.4008f9a1a14c345128f46bf68e805dc8.png

Prosperity ProsperityIcon.png.4b75787c85b1ffe1048df13fe67742b4.png:

  • Gold gather rate (1.8x): 1.9x
  • Length (50s)60s

 

Rain RainIcon.png.cbb4bb4eb8a1ef962f718656ddf82d07.png:

  • The Player's Rain Farm AomFarmIcon.png.2bcffdf4cc9c97b433fb2cb319044ed2.png gather rate (3x): 3.75x
  • Every other players' Rain Farm AomFarmIcon.png.2bcffdf4cc9c97b433fb2cb319044ed2.png gather rate (2x): 2.5x

Explanation:

  • Although Rain is a worldwide GP, Ra especially sends more rain onto the Invoker's fields. (Vanilla).

 

Vision VisionIcon.png.2a6bcdace1b916685844a38dacd1e41f.png:

  • Line of sight (60): 75

 

Eclipse EclipseIcon.png.8415bcfc58965a2aeb316eab73c18c38.png:

  • Affects every players':
    • MU's
    • Monuments MonumentVillagersIcon.png.2d5be493466fd9970f885130ce2587a9.png
  • MU-Special cooldown (-50%)-55%
  • Monument MonumentVillagersIcon.png.2d5be493466fd9970f885130ce2587a9.png Favor rate (1.3x)6.0x (six)
  • Length (65s)60s

Explanation:

  • Eclipse is a worldwide GP.

 

Serpents PlagueOfSerpentsIcon.png.3b20e0183d5a0eacf511d50d5695efd7.png:

  • No debuffs against:
    • Villagers AoM_Villager_Greek_Icon.png.5142934a0b10ed1376f9a087d12a702f.png
    • Fishing Ships Fishingshipgreekicon.jpg.3bb98068d04c7cb871601a40994dcf30.jpg
  • Villagers AoM_Villager_Greek_Icon.png.5142934a0b10ed1376f9a087d12a702f.png deal no bonus damage against Serpents PlagueOfSerpentsIcon.png.3b20e0183d5a0eacf511d50d5695efd7.png
  • Snakes (9): 14

 

Shifting Sands ShiftingSandsIcon.png.290eb84a13901aac9f10e9e513815375.png:

  • Friendlies transport (800 HP)Unlimited

 

Ancestors AncestorsIcon.png.c9ccf4c0ac91d8f2149dad3c3d87affc.png:

  • Minions (13): 20

 

Locust Swarm LocustSwarmIcon.png.a3e769fe2ea346f560c730e74853a26d.png:

  • Hack (20): 25
  • Deals full damage to friendly Villagers (see Section 2.4)

 

Meteor MeteorIcon.png.36084601a441b74f34fe2efbba493a30.png:

  • Adjust Crush damage so 1 Meteorite deals 95% damage to a full HP Town Center TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png (140 HP left)
  • Adjust Hack damage so 1 Meteorite deals 100% damage to a full HP War Elephant Aomwarelephanticon.jpg.f1c5e17c100402a30ac956f1bf2b8617.jpg (0 HP left)
  • Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.4)

Explanation:

  • The original Meteor hits "randomly".

 

Tornado TornadoIcon.png.c53ebbccbbfdbfbd97e3cb4a57e15f46.png:

  • Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.4)

 

NorsePortrait.png.b862c44c3c188118427c5726d0b1db3d.png

Dwarven Mine DwarvenMineIcon.png.bbca735e4551505cf0c9d932f7978690.png:

  • Gold (500, 1,000, 3,000, 6,000): 625, 1,250, 3,750, 7,500

 

Great Hunt GreatHuntIcon.png.a3c8883608efcd9cd07048cb2e126d23.png:

  • Food bonus (750): 900

 

Forest Fire ForestFireIcon.png.c6028e4a0c01442cc6d594af0d9f5176.png:

  • Length limited to 60s
  • Larger animation to compensate for increased:
    • Pierce
    • Crush
    • Range
  • Deals full damage to friendly units/buildings (see Section 2.4)

 

Healing Spring HealingSpringIcon.png.801bf917992c4d9dcffe5e1817638e86.png:

  • Heals (3 HP/s): 4 HP/s

 

Undermine UndermineIcon.png.a42ce5aff0670b3abc30523f8a54165a.png:

  • Wider area-of-effect
  • TC TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png potential max damage (630)1050
  • Fortresses Fortress.png.ebfad014783fdfcf282a1f8d40ae0c09.png potential max damage (1330)1550
  • Deals full damage to friendly buildings (see Section 2.4)

Explanation:

  • "Potential max damage" is 100% damage if Undermine was Invoked directly on a building (instead of it traveling). (Vanilla).

 

Frost FrostIcon.png.dfd04a6998041a88fc7a6f7bab13056a.png:

  • Length (50s)60s

 

Walking Woods WalkingWoodsIcon.png.824806d1f7a3b41481184c631d0c03f8.png:

  • Controllable
  • Speed (3.50)2.20

Explanation:

  • If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit.
  • 2.20 speed compensates for their original Hack and Crush damage values.
    • For reference:
      • 2.20 speed: Caribou, Deer, Elk, Gazelle, Giraffe, Zebra
      • 2.40 speed: Petrobolos, Catapult, Ballista
      • 2.90 speed: Helepolis, War Elephant, Siege Tower, Ox Cart
      • 3.25 speed: Portable Ram

 

Fimbulwinter FimbulwinterIcon.png.868a714442bc37eefbea6969bc4c6901.png:

  • Controllable
  • Spawns at (4):
    • Every enemy Settlements TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png
    • Every Mother Nature Settlements TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png
  • No Crush damage

Explanation:

  • If they are not controllable, the AI can be baited away by a single unit.
  • By spawning at every enemy and unbuilt Settlements, the GP remains logically consistent as a worldwide GP.
  • Without Crush damage, Fimbul Wolves fulfill their roles as raiding (fast) units instead of raiding (fast) siege units.

 

Ragnarok RagnarokIcon.png.0a49f8d044a068c5a47e8111cec02977.png:

  • Speed (4.80): 3.80

Explanation:

  • For reference:
    • 3.80 speed: Villagers, Caravans, Gastraphetes
    • 4.00 speed: Myrmidons, Toxotes, Pharaohs, Slingers, Throwing Axemen
    • 4.20 speed: Hoplites, Hypaspists, Axemen
    • 4.80 speed: Hetairoi, Ulfsarks, Jarls
    • 5.00 speed: Chariot Archers, Spearmen
    • 5.50 speed: Hippikons
    • 6.00 speed: Camelry, Raiding Cavalry

 

 

 

 

 

"Wouldn't Thor ThorIcon.png.7526ae98582f7db585e19896e4b40430.png be restricted if Dwarven Mine DwarvenMineIcon.png.bbca735e4551505cf0c9d932f7978690.png (single-use onlyis researchable?"

Explanation:

  • The Thor player will survive; he'll just research Pig Sticker PigSticker.png.68119518b4037d99f8918af38a2756eb.png later.
  • For reference, his Dwarves' Dwarficon.jpg.59af99fe0928dd2086dbdfb9c355af88.jpg Food gathering rates:
    • Hunt Deer_icon.png.79f6e401a95987b5ca7fd2c9ccfbfdd3.png is the same as Gatherers Gatherericon.jpg.445235cac844d2921fb8ae659702cf7b.jpg
    • Berry/herdable CowAOM.png.387b03f7b1fd30ca1ee52e53190d7ba4.png is 0.01 slower than Gatherers Gatherericon.jpg.445235cac844d2921fb8ae659702cf7b.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of letting free God Powers decide/automate the game, let the players' skill (attention to detail, micro, macro) dictate their victories and losses!

3.PNG.d3a856c3e8c33dcda56c107b0f6c22d1.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.1 Favor tweaking

 

Advancing requires Favor:

  • Classical Age ClassicalAge.png.1e2b9ad2eb782971ae0ca4b08b6874ad.png Favor costs: 0
  • Heroic Age HeroicAge.png.56d34f7d5c7807a5090f8b923c115e78.png Favor costs: 25
  • Mythic Age MythicAge.png.f275632515b6aa9dcb1138e506f78c21.png Favor costs: 50

Explanation:

  • Classical Age costs 0 Favor so to not deny certain playstyles, and also because Zeus has 10 free Favor.
  • Players in Heroic Age often have excess resources to "skip" to Mythic Age (due to 2TC's).
  • This would also create for interesting games where players can target enemy Temples or Monuments to hinder their Advancing.

 

Remove Favor costs from Wonders AomWonderIcon.png.fdd03fe6b76715437a78ecc2244d46f6.png and Fortresses Fortress.png.ebfad014783fdfcf282a1f8d40ae0c09.png

Explanation:

  • Fortresses and Wonders have nothing to do with MU's or GP's.
  •  
  • Wonders can be rebuilt, unrestricted by Favor.
  • Wonder Favor cost is already paid by Mythic Age's cost.
  •  
  • Fortress Favor cost is "reallocated" to the TC.

 

TC's TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png include a 5 Favor cost

Explanation:

  • TC's:
    • Are where GP's are researched (see Section 2.0b)
    • Are mini-fortresses for map control
    • Give extra Population
    • Produce Villagers

 

Favor bounty

  • Serpents PlagueOfSerpentsIcon.png.3b20e0183d5a0eacf511d50d5695efd7.png have 0.48 Favor bounty
  • Walking woods WalkingWoodsIcon.png.824806d1f7a3b41481184c631d0c03f8.png have 2.16 Favor bounty
  • Walls Stonewall_icon.png.8a9a6857d2e2448a48592143b5e15d93.png have 2.16 Favor bounty

Explanation:

  • GP MU's are still MU's.
  • Walls have high HP and Hack armor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.2 Free units tweaking

 

 

Regarding free huntables

 

Set SetIcon.png.10bac31fe645fdb62c266e002f2ac866.png  does not receive free animals after Advancing

Explanation:

  • Free huntables are imbalanced, especially on low-hunt maps.
  • Free animals are like free MU's.

 

 

Regarding free scouting

 

Poseidon's PoseidonIcon.png.5206a9721a2758ac440ea49986755cd7.png Hippocampus HippocampusIcon.png.7878a1a922a3f6334f106079f76ab892.png

Idea 1: Hippocampus lasts 30 seconds.

Or

Idea 2: The first Hippocampus will spawn in Classical Age, but subsequent spawns cost:

  • Limit 1 (total Hippocampi)
  • 50 Food
  • 2 Favor
  • 1 Population

Explanation:

Without this tweak, not only does the Poseidon player save Advancing time and resources by not scouting with a Villager/Fishing-Ship, they have free LOS on areas of interest!

Without this tweak, Poseidon players on:

  • Anatolia-styled maps: Can adjust their BO/strategy early for a full-scale Water fight if they discovered an opponent's dock on their Hippocampus spawn side.
  • Mediterranean-/Midgard-styled maps: Can know if their opponent is commited to Water or land fighting.

Or

Idea 3: No changes (see Section 2.3).

 

Odin's OdinIcon.png.5403117357315c19921f49cdb7cca69c.png Ravens RavenIcon.png.7da65a30b496ee3918742c3d7695a414.png

Idea 1: Ravens last 30 seconds.

Or

Idea 2: The first two Ravens will spawn in Classical Age (Vanilla), but subsequent spawns cost:

  • Limit 2 (total Ravens)
  • 25 Food
  • 1 Favor
  • 1 Population

Explanation:

  • There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had Archaic flying Scouts cost resources.
  • The balance™ patch gives Odin 60+ seconds of extra scouting than any other Major Gods in the very early game!
    • And compound that with:
      • 2 flying scouts
      • Free LOS on areas of interest
  • Consider: What if maps have Fog of War removed? That is what Archaic Ravens do!
  • Archaic Ravens are arguably as good as Loki's Spy GP, or even better.
  • For reference:
    • Raven RavenIcon.png.7da65a30b496ee3918742c3d7695a414.png
      • 20 LOS
      • 4.00 speed
      • 0 Food, 0 Favor, 0 Population, 0 seconds training time
      • Available in Archaic Age (balance™ patch); Classical Age (Vanilla)
    • Pegasus PegasusIcon.png.e7ad01d2f97db1e85da0d69f69cb611d.png
      • 18 LOS
      • 5.00 speed
      • 50 Food, 2 Favor, 2 Population, 6 seconds training time
      • Available in Archaic Age
    • Winged Messenger WingedMessenger.png.2a07d4efad99d08988ab633f01064d58.png
      • Pegasi have extra LOS, halved training time, and do not cost Food
      • 50 Gold and 10 Favor
      • Available in Classical Age
  • Like 2 pegasi - Age of Free Insurance™!

 

 

Regarding free military

 

Poseidon's PoseidonIcon.png.5206a9721a2758ac440ea49986755cd7.png Militia MilitiaIcon.png.bad5d7da3cd78fea5148fbc9ae6ae643.png:

  • Cost 0 Population
  • Last 10 seconds

Explanation:

  • Militia punish opponents, especially their siege units, for destroying Poseidon's buildings.
  • The tweak allows Militia to function like defensive Mercenaries.
  • As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Militia thematically serve as temporary minutemen.

 

Hades' HadesIcon.png.3fa2aa877ec83471b04774c4130696d7.png Shades ShadeIcon.png.8f82e7df2b1e1b82c2cc5bd19d66c75e.png:

  • Cost 0 Population
  • Last 20 seconds (as they deal MU damage, see Section 2.4)
  • Do not receive Armory upgrades (undo the balance™ change)

Explanation:

  • Shades punish opponents for killing Hades units.
  • The tweak allows Shades to function like defensive Mercenaries.
  • No Armory upgrades because Myth Units are not Human Units.
  • As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Shades thematically serve as wrathful spirits of the fallen, roaming the surface once more after striking a shady deal with the god of the Underworld.

 

Loki's LokiIcon.png.1da3ad429cd19e77fabb20ee66502529.png MU-spawns:

  • Last 45 - 60 seconds, randomly
  • Private features (visible only to the player and allies):
    • Title: [Myth Unit] of Loki
    • Duration
    • Set Animal's black effect

Explanation:

  • Mu-spawns punish opponents for fighting against Loki's Hersirs.
  • No 0 Population: Since Loki is the only Norse Major God to not have any hunting bonuses, Ensemble Studios gave him MU spawns (and faster Longhouse training times). Although Loki's Hersirs are rather limited in the late-game (especially so at full Population, unable to spawn free MU's; and dealing with mass counter-infantry), hunt should be depleted by then.
  • 45 - 60 seconds (randomly): The tweak buffers Loki's random power spikes, allowing his MU spawns to function like Mercenaries, while lasting long enough to discourage opponents from retreating in battles on the basis of waiting for MU spawns to expire.
  • Private features: So the opponent cannot tell which enemy Loki MU is a spawn, allowing for player guerilla/sacrificial tactics in the midst of chaotic situations.
  • As an unintended bonus for the time limit, Loki's MU-spawns thematically serve as deceived/coerced units fighting on behalf of the trickster god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.3 Water tweaking

 

 

AoM's Water balance was a rushed development.

 

The current Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps require serious revamping or else should be discarded from Ranked play.

 

Consider:

  • Which "civilizations" (tech-trees) tend to enjoy playing on Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps? (What are Water Myth Units?)
  • Why does a portion of the playerbase, across different skill sets and "civilizations" (tech-trees), instant-Resign/Save on Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps?
  • Why were land-map-only mods created?

 

 

The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta:

Spoiler

 

// The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. //

 

Make military ship Kebeniticon.jpg.61b9b7b5bdbe3011538b3b0ff5d92ed6.jpg stats the same for all civilizations
Explanation:

  • May the player with the best micro win Water fights!
  • Because Greek ships have extra range: they shoot further and kite better.
  • Because Norse ships are slower: they receive more arrows while kiting (and their (meager) extra damage is negligible when their wood economy can't even pump out ships as well as the Greeks/Egyptians!).

 

Egyptians:

  • Fishing Ships Fishingshipgreekicon.jpg.3bb98068d04c7cb871601a40994dcf30.jpg do not build
  • First Dock DockAOMIcon.png.d15863427231a7401007e204c0539dd1.png costs 50 Gold GoldAOM.png.10a2dc1b3b463667145d09aa37233031.png, but subsequent Docks cost 75 Gold GoldAOM.png.10a2dc1b3b463667145d09aa37233031.png

Explanation:

  • Egyptians build "infinite" Docks. By the time 1 Dock is down, 2 more spring out of nowhere! Consider how different Water meta would be if Greeks and Norse could build 50-Wood Docks with their fishing ships as well!
  • Dock Cost:
    • (Building animations were not calculated).
    • Greek Dock Wood cost (100) ÷ Greek/Norse Wood gathering rate (1.08) = 92.5 seconds per Greek Dock
    • 92.5 seconds per Greek Dock × Egyptian Gold gathering rate (0.82) = 75.85 Gold
    • (As with Norse, building time not included (otherwise: Egyptian Docks should cost 65 Gold; and Norse Docks (movement speed included) 85 Wood).

 

Shooting Docks as a researchable Tech in Heroic Age?

(Credit: Lurker and others)?

Explanation:

  • This frees the playstyles of those who who optimized their Build Orders on Water Maps (instead of opting for the standard™ 3-Docks booming meta):
    • As a Technology: Costing resources and time to research.
    • Researchable in Heroic Age: Allowing sufficient time for Classical Age naval warfare.

 

Classical Age Hammer Ramminggalleyicon.jpg.ea87d048dd71b114f459be299105f00a.jpg and Siege AoMDragonshipIcon.png.b3d877caa5194cb89f36f571a176ae29.png ships?

(Credit: ChronoJJ, BoIt, and others)?

Explanation:

  • For naval warfare variety?

 

Add Water Myth Units to every Minor God without one?

Explanation:

  • For naval warfare variety?

 

Remove Water Myth Units from every Minor God?

Explanation:

  • For naval warfare balance?

 

// The listed Water tweaks will not solve AoM's outrageous Water macro-meta. //

 

 

 

 

Water's macro-meta alternative:

 

  • Remove large-body-of-water Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps from Ranked map lists. (E.g.: Anatolia, Mediterranean, Midgard).

 

  • Add new Water (i.e.: symmetrical) maps in which bodies-of-water (any size) must not extend past 1/3 of the map's length or width.

water2.thumb.jpg.0adc31acdb7b40b83de67f2297973bba.jpg

Spoiler

wateranatolia.thumb.jpg.dcdfeb794f60cf7d723ad09b03378729.jpg      watermidgard.thumb.jpg.77d9c159fd810d47a8dffbe83f0db3e6.jpg      watersquare1.thumb.jpg.3157443c0d432bc1efff38f8cfa78a1d.jpg      watersquare2.thumb.jpg.04ee84ab5dc8259ad2b5bf144fd5c462.jpg

watersquare3.thumb.jpg.ad6b004e708f2d0fe19cc21e61300a09.jpg

 

Explanation:

  • Civilizations retain their identities (strengths and weaknesses).
  • This allows for tighter matches instead of the standard™ 3-Docks boomy longplay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.4 Miscellaneous tweaking

 

 

 

Revert most balance™ changes to TT Patch 1.03

Explanation:

  • There was a reason why Ensemble Studios had Technologies cost their prices and training times. Players are not entitled to a Minor God's Techs simply by booming/Advancing; this is Age of Mythology, not Age of Co-Pay Insurance™; players must earn the resources to research the technology. Since Minor God Technologies are player-exclusive, by tweaking them to become more potent, along with cheaper prices, the balances™ effectively turn them into "Armory"/"Granary" upgrades (cheap, accessible), giving the player many undeserved advantages.
  • Most mythological balance™ changes are unnecessary if there were no free MU's or GP's (please read Sections 1.0, 2.0a, 2.0b).
  •  
  • Although TT Patch 1.03 is imbalanced, it can serve as a starting reference (from where Ensemble Studios left off) for future balancers™ to tweak the game without automation and Age of Free Insurance™.

 

 

 

Undo map balance™

Explanation:

  • Resolving map screws is not the same thing as balancing™ maps.
  • Nearly-symmetrical maps undo the purpose of Random Maps and furthers the auto-pilot, booming playstyle by saving the player the effort to scout thoroughly.

 

Fine-tune "The Unknown" (map) and introduce it into ranked matches

(Credit: BoIt).

Explanation:

  • To add "infinite" variety to ranked matches.
  • BoIt - 1:27:13 (January 5, 2022):
    • I think the idea of adding The Unknown.... If it was a competitive map, it would be so fun, every single game would be different, you'd have no idea of what you're launching into, you'd have to actually scout to like figure it out, you'd have to like adapt your builds, everything is unique in that way and just like have a new experience every time you play the game.

    • Spoiler

 


 

Add 1 Wall-connector redzoning to these buildings:

  • Docks DockAOMIcon.png.d15863427231a7401007e204c0539dd1.png
  • Fortresses Fortress.png.ebfad014783fdfcf282a1f8d40ae0c09.png
  • Towers SentryTowerIcon.png.a724bf9e378e7d2836b04d92538db31e.png
  • Wonders AomWonderIcon.png.fdd03fe6b76715437a78ecc2244d46f6.png

Explanation:

  • Wall-connectors are the endpoints of Walls.
    • Whereas Wall-segments are structures automatically-generated between Wall-connectors, but weaker and longer.
  •  
  • By building a Wall on "itself", players:
    • Save Gold
    • Inflate the defense of the protected building, rendering them "immortal" against non-ranged units, punishing:
      • Early aggression
      • Small raids
      • Norse units
  •  
  • But due to unpaid/undeserved perks (Age of Free Insurance™), Wall-connectors are a staple in a Free GP, Free MU meta.
  •  
  • Regarding Fortresses, Towers, and Wonders:
    • But, by removing Age of Free Insurance™, undeserved power spikes should lessen, therefore, such defenses should not be as necessary, as:
      • Fortresses rapidly fire 3 arrows.
      • Towers have very little surface area (smaller than a house!).
      • Wonders are 10-minute winning-conditions. They are usually defended heavily.
  •  
  • Regarding Docks:
    • Half of its building is in the water, already reducing its surface area for land units to attack.
    • Those who do not plan, micro, or protect their Dock builders well should be punished.
      • Players are entitled to equal opportunities to building Docks, not equal results.
      • This is Age of Mythology, not Age of Dock Spam™ Passive Aggression Edition.

 

Reduce the redzoning of these Resources to 1 Wall-connector:

  • Gold Mines DwarvenMineIcon.png.bbca735e4551505cf0c9d932f7978690.png
  • Town Centers TownCenterAOMGreek.png.d84387012c2003216186281311dbd2b2.png

Explanation: By default, Gold Mines and Town Centers have 2 - 3 Wall-connector redzoning, which prevents:

  • Defenders from walling-off invaders effectively.
  • Aggressors from walling-off resources effectively.

 

Reduce Wall's Stonewall_icon.png.8a9a6857d2e2448a48592143b5e15d93.png Line of Sight

Explanation: So players cannot remotely-scout resource statuses (e.g.: Gold Mines, Settlements, hunt) with Wall LOS.

 

Bad ideas:

Spoiler

Bad idea 1:

Walls are built per standard/longest segment; they can no longer be built via click-and-drag.

Explanation:

  • To prevent Wall-connector spam.
  • To prevent multiple Wall spam on chokepoints.

Problems:

  • Walling may be tedious and restricted as players would need to:
    • Rotate each Wall-segment
    • Align each thin Wall-segment correctly
    • Spend more Gold

 

Bad idea 2:

  • Wall-connectors and Short Wall-segments are always 55 HP, regardless of upgrades.

Explanation:

  • To mitigate Wall-connector spamming's potential.
  •  
  • Prior to the discovery of Wall-connectors, players often protected their Towers with Houses.
  • To equalize Wall-connector HP to House HP:
    • For reference:
      • House: 450 HP, 30% Hack Armor
      • Wooden Wall: 600 HP, 65% Hack Armor
    • Finding true HP:
      • 450 House HP / 0.7 = 643 true House HP
      • 600 Wall HP / 0.35 = 1714 true Wall HP
    • Finding multiplier:
      • 1714 true Wall HP / 643 true House HP = 2.67
    • Finding equalized HP:
      • 600 Wall HP / 2.67 multiplier = 225 Wall-connector HP equalized to House HP
    • Finding HP equalized to surface area (Wall-connectors are about 1/4 the surface area of  Houses):
      • 225 equalized Wall HP / 4 = 56.3 HP

Problems:

  • Due to how AoM handles Wall HP, if Wall-connectors are 55 HP, then every Wall adjacent to Wall-connectors are "55 HP".

 

 

 

Remove F4 (Scores)

Explanation:

  • Player actions are telegraphed.
    • One example: A dip in the player's Score would notify attentive opponents that one is Advancing due to a significant "loss" in the player's resources.

 

Remove the announcement for:

  • Completed Advancings
  • Completed Town Centers
  • Researched God Powers
  • Garrisoned Relics

Explanation:

  • This rewards and encourages scouting.
  • This allows for new tactics due to the element of surprise.
  • God-Power announcements punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b); (free) announcements are better suited for free God Powers.
  • Players can always F7 to scout:
    • Age statuses
    • God Powers list
  •  
  • Do not remove annoucements for:
    • Relics: They telegraph to opponents that an "imbalanced" perk is in the player's hands.
    • Completed Advancings: They telegraph to opponents that a God Power may be in the process of being researched.
    • Researched God Powers: They are player-exclusive, game-changing power spikes.

 

Cancelled GP's receive a cooldown penalty

God Power cancellations are announced

  • Two minutes penalty?

Explanation:

  • God-Power announcements punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b).
  • This prevents:
    • Announcement spamming
    • Repetitive mind-games/"abuse"
  • This allows for the following tactics:
    • Element of surprise
    • Exploiting an inattentive/neurotic player
  • An example: Cancelling Ragnarok at 95% research to bait an opponent into amassing counter-infantry units.

 

Hp-damaging area-of-effect GP's deal full damage to friendly units'/buildings' HP

  • Forest Fire ForestFireIcon.png.c6028e4a0c01442cc6d594af0d9f5176.png
  • Undermine (buildingsUndermineIcon.png.a42ce5aff0670b3abc30523f8a54165a.png
  • Locust Swarm (VillagersLocustSwarmIcon.png.a3e769fe2ea346f560c730e74853a26d.png
  • Meteor Shower MeteorIcon.png.36084601a441b74f34fe2efbba493a30.png
  • Tornado TornadoIcon.png.c53ebbccbbfdbfbd97e3cb4a57e15f46.png
  • Earthquake EarthquakeIcon.png.31fabf808fc70182134b718516ea5536.png
  • Lightning Storm Lightning_StormIcon.png.05d639e8baa03e61c457061d8cc439c8.png

Explanation:

  • This would punish players since GP's require time and Favor to be researched (see Section 2.0b).

  • This buffers: cheesy "abuse"/plays, power spikes, and inflated offense.
    • For example:
      • Spoiler
        • Forest Fire: Villagers trapped between raiders and trees.
        • Undermine: Walls constructed during Ceasefire.
        • Locust Swarm: Villagers catfighting over a Gold Mine.
        • Meteor Shower, Tornado, Earthquake, Lightning Storm: An invading army.
  • Regarding the effects of non-HP-damaging area-of-effect GP's, the gods can discriminate on which units/buildings to target (e.g.: Restoration, Curse, Frost) so to avoid friendly-fire, whereas destructive GP effects are clearly indiscriminative.
    • Consider:
      • Spoiler
        • Forest Fire: Can Freyja protect lungs from ash and smoke?
        • Undermine: There is clearly something going on in the subterranean, billowing blue smoke all the way down its line.
        • Locust Swarm: Unlike Plague of Serpents or Minions, Locust Swarm does not produce in-game units.
        • Meteor Shower: How would Set spare your army from meteorites raining at speeds of 1500 kilometers per hour?
        • Tornado: Likewise, with winds up to 500 kilometers per hour?
        • Earthquake: If the ground beneath your army opened up and swallowed your enemies, would not the same laws of physics apply to your army too or would they levitate instead?
        • Lightning Storm: This isn't one of Zeus' Bolts. And lightning typically strikes the tallest objects.

 

 

 

Dwarf Ulfsark Ulfsarkicon.jpg.97e1b18cd9b1c423af1d7883470b1626.jpg models

Female Ulfsark Ulfsarkicon.jpg.97e1b18cd9b1c423af1d7883470b1626.jpg models

 

Priests AoM_Priest_Icon.png.983c7da8a466c8d1aec353b65ef05542.png can pick up Relics

Explanation: They are Hero units.

 

Shades ShadeIcon.png.8f82e7df2b1e1b82c2cc5bd19d66c75e.png deal MU damage

Explanation: They are Myth Units (and last 20 seconds; see Section 2.2).

 


 

Transport/Garrison limit is Population-based instead of unit-count-based

For example:

  • Barracks can only rally-garrison 2 Ulfsarks instead of 5.
  • Rocs can only transport 5 Catapults instead of 15.
  • Town Centers can only garrison 7 Toxotes instead of 15.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 DLC's

Spoiler

 

 

 

3.0 On new "civilizations" (tech-trees)

 

 

 

 

All attempts at creating a new tech-tree ("civilization") have ended up as pseudo copies of existing ones:

Spoiler

 

  • AoT: Atlanteans are simply an Egyptian-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Norse undertones.
    •  
    • Egyptian-based:
      • Scouting (walking Obelisks)
      • Human military: 
        • Norse > Atlanteans > Greek
          • (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed in Heroic+ Ages: Greek-based (types) units).
        • Specialized hard-counter units
    •  
    • Norse-based:
      • Siege (point-blank Destroyers, minimum-range Fire Siphons)
      • Economy (no drop-off location (e.g.: Norse's Ox Carts), strong early-game economy (e.g.: Norse's hunting bonuses and Dwarves))
    •  
    • Rushed development (or uncreative):
      • Fortress: Greek-based (siege facility; Helepolis-inspired Fire Siphons; Myrmidon-inspired Fanatics)
      • Human unit variety: Greek-based
      •  
      • Favor: Egyptian-based (trickle: Town Center)
      • Wall: Egyptian-based (Iron Wall, Orichalkos Wall)
      •  
      • Aggression: Norse-like (fast Advance capability)
      • Odd unit composition: Norse-based

 

 

  • TotD: Chinese are simply a Greek-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Egyptian undertones.
    •  
    • Greek-based:
      • Scouting (lesser Greek Scouts)
      • Human military:
        • Egyptian > Chinese > Norse
          • (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed in Heroic+ Ages: Norse-based (odd-unit composition) units).
        • Jason/Odysseus hybrid Heroes
        • Hoplite-clone Halberdiers
        • Toxote-clone Chu Ko Nus
        • Gastraphetes-clone Fire Lances
    •  
    • Egyptian-based:
      • Siege (Catapult-clone Sitting Tigers)
      • Economy (GP's, Major God perks, Gardens, 4-Villager-start ("Pharaoh"), lowered gathering rates)
    •  
    • Rushed development (or uncreative):
      • Fortress: Greek-based (siege facility; Gastraphetes-clone Fire Lances)
      • Human unit variety: Greek-based
      •  
      • Favor: Egyptian-based (trickle: Garden)
      • Wall: Egyptian-based (Great Wall)
      •  
      • Aggression: Norse-like (fast Advance capability)
      • Odd unit composition: Norse-based

 

 

  • Coming soon™: Aztecs are simply a Norse-based tech-tree ("civilization") with Egyptian undertones?

 

 

 

 

And why is that?


Because Ensemble Studios had centered its version of balance across a rough rock-paper-scissors formula and civilizational themes:

Spoiler

mu.png.63d658cf1900487da18fa23b705f653b.png Military counters: Myth Units > Humans > Heroes > Myth Units...

human.png.1cf1089e10b9444716794a410d5b9f5c.pngHuman military counters: Infantry > Cavalry > Archers > Infantry...

water.png.e95960ae832f2dfb5dd44c75eee17540.pngWater military counters: Arrow > Hammer > Siege > Arrow...

stance.png.06919e1a87b954ab00b3e0648db08243.png 

  • Speed: Egyptian > Norse > Greek
  • Range: Greek > Egyptian > Norse
  • Cost-efficiency: Norse > Greek > Egyptian
  • Price/HP/attack/armor: Greek > Norse > Egyptian
  •  
  • Barracks-focused: Norse > Greek > Egyptian
  • Fortress-focused: Egyptian > Norse > Greek
  • Specialization-focused (Academy/Range/Stables/Fortress): Greek > Egyptian > Norse
  •  
  • Build Order complexity: Norse > Egyptian > Greek
  • Strategic flexibility: Greek > Egyptian > Norse
  •  
  • Hero range: Egyptian > Greek > Norse
  • Hero melee: Norse > Greek > Egyptian
  •  
  • Scouting: Norse (double/triple... Ulfsarks) > Greek (Pegasi) > Egyptian (Obelisks)
    • (The order is reversed, ideally, later in the game).
  • Relics: Egyptian > Greek > Norse
    • (The order is reversed, ideally, later in the game).
  •  
  • Age: Classical Age (Norse), Heroic Age (Egyptian), Mythic Age (Greek)
  • Combat: Aggressive (Norse), Defensive (Egyptian), Mixed (Greek)
  • Counters/damage: Greek (Pierce) > Norse (Hack) > Egyptian (Crush) > Greek (Pierce)...
    • (In certain scenarios, the order is reversed due to the unlocked, varied units in Heroic+ Ages).

resource.png.b14b8409ae24f20a443e8316ae9bd1c9.png

  • Greek valued resources: Wood, Food, Gold
    • Islands have plenty of ore, but fewer trees than larger land masses. The ocean provides much seafood.
  • Egyptian valued resources: Gold, Wood, Food
    • The Nile River allows for high yields of crops and animals, but the scarcity of trees and other resources in the desert meant trading is paramount to survival.
  • Norse valued resources: Food, Gold, Wood
    • Scandinavia has many trees, but the cold requires more effort for food output. Dwarves are legendary miners.

 

 

 

 

 

But new titles never learn.

 

That was why balance was disrupted whenever a new tech-tree ("civilization") was introduced.

That was why Vanilla players eventually dropped the game after TT was released.

That was why even AoT players rated TotD negatively on Steam. (Consider: What if TT had a Steam page in 2003?)

And that is why Aztecs and etc. will make the same mistakes, regardless of fan mod(s) testing.

 

 

History repeats itself.

 

 

The core gameplay was already mathematically determined.

For starters, try calculating every civilization's Villager gathering-rates-to-training-times ratio.

 

Ippert's Encyclopedia (Excel spreadsheets):

https://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=11472

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2151972324

 

 

 

 

AoM has 3 (asymmetrical) tech-trees called "civilizations", unlike AoE2, which only has "1" tech-tree, but many "civilizations".

 

By creating a new "civilization" (tech-tree), Developers must come face-to-face with the maths Ensemble Studios have based AoM's balance upon.

 

 

RTS games are not MOBA's (controllable single-character game genre).

Tech-trees ("civilizations") are not like "Champions"/"Heroes" that can be added every season, regardless of extensive planning and testing.

 

Consider: What if Starcraft 2 introduced a new faction (tech-tree) in each of their expansion pack releases?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.1 New "civilizations" (tech-trees) alternative

 

 

 

Idea, part 1: Create new Major and/or Minor Gods for the existing 3 civilizations:

  • Greeks GreekIcon.png.11fc5044012f1a5668c2dc6597bd20a6.png can use nymphs, or, reuse Atlanteans AtlanteanIcon.png.0040c5c852dcde2d08f31f2a02083afc.png (because their MU's were based off of Greek mythology!)
  • Egyptians EgyptianIcon.png.40c685cd4ad734ec40aa5b8c99d1c95e.png can use some cat
  • Norse NorseIcon.png.73cc7e37d26a1814bbc9447ae9f2d884.png can use a giant

 

Explanation:

  • Developers can always create new content, and players will be satisifed:
    • Casuals receive new content.
    • Competitive players need not worry about balance™ because there would still be the same 3 tech-trees.

 

For reference:

 

 

 

Idea, part 2: When creating new AoM Major/Minor Gods for the existing 3 civilizations, they do not need to be lore accurate.

 

Explanation:

  • Many of AoM's gods do not have GP's, MU's, Techs, or Perks that reflect them.
    • For example, Bragi (Norse god of poetry) has nothing to do with:
      • Ulfsarks
      • Flaming Weapons
      • Battle Boars (which was crafted by dwarves!)
  •  
  • Being lore accurate may restrict:
    • Development creativity*
    • Gameplay variety*
  • * Source: "Tale of the Dragon" expansion pack (AoMEE)

 

Sample template:

Spoiler
  • Major God: Hodr (the blind Aesir, tricked by Loki to accidentally kill Baldr)
    • GP: Literally anything!
    • MU: Literally anything!
    • Tech: Literally anything!
    • Perk: Literally anything!
  •  New Classical Age Minor God: Aegir (sea giant)
    • GP: Literally anything!
    • MU: Literally anything!
    • Tech 1: Literally anything!
    • Tech 2: Literally anything!
  • New Heroic Age Minor God: Ran (Aegir's wife)
    • GP: Literally anything!
    • MU: Literally anything!
    • Tech 1: Literally anything!
    • Tech 2: Literally anything!
  • New Mythic Age Minor God: Alvaldi (giant)
    • GP: Literally anything!
    • MU: Literally anything!
    • Tech 1: Literally anything!
    • Tech 2: Literally anything!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.2 Miscellaneous ideas

 

 

Idea: New Campaign scenarios do not need to include Arkantos and the gang; they can be separate stories like "The Golden Gift" Campaign.

 

 

Idea: Introduce an expansion pack titled, "Enemies"?

  • The Campaign is about the resurrection of enemies of the Major Gods.
  • Introduce new antagonistic Major/Minor Gods to the existing 3 civilizations.

 

 

Idea: Create a short Campaign:

  • Highlighting the imbalances of AoT's core mechanics.
  • As a Multiplayer tutorial for high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy without Age of Free Insurance™

 

 

Idea: Create a new map with localized Tornados/Lightning-Storms on contested Gold Mines?

 

 

Idea: Add new quasi-asymmetrical land maps, featuring small pools of water with fish with "river monsters" (MU's) in them?

  • Mainly melee Water MU's?
  • Ranged Water MU's (e.g.: Jormund Elvers) near contested areas of interest (e.g.: Gold mines)?
  • Explanation:
    • River monsters (Mu's) buffer boomy gameplay; players will need to fight/work for their:
      • Optional source of infinite Food (fish)
      • Optional crossing over to the other side

 

 

Idea: Release mini DLC's for a fraction of standard DLC prices?

 

 

Idea: Free-to-play?

  • (Credit for the idea, not below: BoIt and others).
  •  
  • Paid players get the base game (Campaign, Multiplayer, old music)
  •  
  • Free players:
    • Get a randomized God per day, per user.
    • Are restricted - either:
      • Cannot build Walls or Towers
      • Or cannot use Favor
    • See ads* in:
      • Main menu
      • Post-match
        • Winning players see more.
  •  
  • In-game currency can be used to rent or purchase:
    • Music (old/new)
    • Single-player
    • Campaign (old/new)
    • Editor
    • Major God
    • Civilization
    • Skins
    • Taunts
    •  
    • Monthly tournament wins shall be awarded in-game currency
    • Daily/Weekly tasks (e.g.: Kill 10 Villagers with Locust Swarm)
    •  
    • Gifting F2P friends
    • Removing F2P ads* from main menu and post-match menu
  •  
  • * Why do players tolerate ads (and questionable/pirated executables) on third-party multiplayer platforms (operated by strangers), but not the idea for the official release?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

Spoiler

 

 

 

AoM is like "Bloodborne" of the "Age of" series.

 

 

In Age of Mythology, Ensemble Studios intended for games be even aggressive and quicker than AoE2 as evident with:

  • Lowered Population cap
  • Settlements
  • Redesigned Walls
  • Three main resources
  • Fewer tech-tree ("civilization") units
  • Smaller maps

 

Explanation:

  •  
  • Lowered Population cap meant:
    • Population becomes a "resource":
      • Units cannot be spammed like in AoE2.
      • Players must balance their Villager and military ratios.
      • Settlements (and their implications).
    • Units are worth more in stats (one reason why Villagers could fend off military units); they are not as expendable as AoE2 units.
    • Buildings were also scaled along with the lower population cap, and therefore cannot be "spammed" like in AoE2; they are fewer and must be placed wisely.
    • Resource gathering rates and prices of buildings/units were scaled for the sandbox.
    • Smaller maps (and their implications).
    • In context, AoM's population cap was not a result of hardware limitations, but its sandbox design!
  •  
  • Settlements meant Population and the production of Villagers had to be earned (fought over); players cannot sit comfortably within city Walls and outboom their opponent like in AoE2 or 2TC's.
  •  
  • AoM players cannot wall like AoE2 players do because AoM Walls are:
    • Weaker
    • Longer to build
    • More expensive
    • Affected by the remaining HP of adjacent Walls
  •  
  • Three general resources meant players have more time to implement their micro-meta instead of gathering resources.
  •  
  • Fewer tech-tree ("civilization") units meant unit-composition and fights are simpler to form/counter.
  •  
  • Smaller maps meant:
    • Scouting/line-of-sight has a more prominent role.
    • Tighter matches instead of the standard boomy longplay of AoE2.

                rm.thumb.png.3a50fdf3c72f629c565597dd3ce548fb.png

                                                                              Ensemble Studios designer, Greg Street (IGN - September 27, 2002)

 

 

 

All of which run contrary to what Casuals desire: https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-myth-retold/217173

 

Casuals want:

  • New tech-trees ("civilizations")
  • Removal of Settlements
  • Rechargeable God Powers
  • Stone
  • Maps to become:
    • Larger
    • Symmetrical
    • Revealed
  • Increased/unlimited:
    • Fortress allowance
    • Tower allowance
    • Population
    • Villagers

 

 

 

Why cater the game to an inflated majority who'd never touch the game again? Maybe during the weekends or the holidays?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AgeofMythology/comments/ye4rda/do_you_want_to_have_autoqueue_in_age_of_mythology/

 

The same Casuals who'd show up at every showcasing of re-releases, gobbling content from social media, only to hibernate until the next game's re-re-release or sequels?

https://steamcharts.com/app/266840

  • AoMEE released on May, 2014
  • TotD released on January, 2016
  • COVID lockdowns: 2020 - 2023
  • AoM Retold announced on October, 2022
  • Occasional Steam sales

 

 

Even if AoM Retold were to release without:

  • Free GP's
  • New "civilizations" (tech-trees)
  • AoT (AQ, 2TC's free MU's, Shooting Docks...)

The threats to boycotting AoM Retold will not happen because Casuals will continue to consume.

 

Developers and Managers must know there will always be Casuals in any game. Refer to AoE2's population (nearly 10 times of AoM):

Are all 25k players like Viper? Yet, 10,000 AoE2 Casuals did not find it difficult to memorize "Ctrl & 1" for grouping or "Q" for Hoplites!

 

 

The reason why AoM is filled with Casuals is not because it is a Casual's game. It is because The Titans Expansion Pack and free God Powers punish you for your:

  • Efforts (practicing, BO crafting)
  • Aggressive play
  • Risk-taking/creativity (microing outside of the established macro-meta set by free GP's and AoT)
  • Playing Norse as Ensemble Studios intended

 

And reward you for picking the few, right choices:

  1. Pick any one top Major Gods (of the current macro-meta)1.03pantheon3.thumb.PNG.c8cfdbdfecbd5445c28f4942a984312b.PNG                                                           TheMista interview (2015).
  2. 2TC     1000738127_boomraid.PNG.3a4f7b30c2d02575a26fc9b7c0f634eb.PNG  TheMista interview (2015).
  3. Advance to Heroic age
  4. Lame
  5. Win
  6. Repeat!

 

 

Those who have played enough high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy games know there is a glass ceiling.

The diversity of choices is an illusion for 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy games.
There is only one way to play this game. And AoT Pros know it.
Though they deny it, it is evident by their silent retirements or taking a break from the game (indefinitely).
Why? Because there is no one else to play with besides the same abuser smurfs!

 

 

 

With free GP's setting the tone of the game,

  With free MU's establishing 2TC-raid playstyles,

    With 2TC's acting like mini-fortresses for map control,

      With Villagers streamlining from 2TC's like a factory,

        With AQ automating all individual tasks,

 

Of course, "The game plays by itself"™!

 


In other words, what got boomy Casuals to become AoT Pros in the first place is the same reason why they stopped playing the game! (Regardless of new maps, mods, or balance™ patches!)


mor.thumb.PNG.3a6886734da08d8bab98da177512f116.PNG

Burnout? No, burned out of players.

 

History repeats itself!

Is it any wonder why high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy dwindled following the release of the expansion pack after catering to Casuals first, then boomier civilizations? Why AoT is saturated with Casuals and boomy Mains?

 

 

 

 

You can spend hours crafting the perfect BO or practicing against Titan Attacker AI, but the reality of the "meta" (macro-meta) is this:

1.PNG.bb7087beae9f2a2c45e38d1b0d4be62a.PNG

 

 

The game simply does not reward effort (practicing, time spent on creating a BO) or skill.

 

There is only one way to play this game.

1000738127_boomraid.PNG.3a4f7b30c2d02575a26fc9b7c0f634eb.PNG

TheMista interview (2015).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any fresh or open-minded players see these grievances very clearly; they are the middle-class players, not bound by low standards (Casuals) or nostalgia (AoT Pros (boomy Mains)).

They clearly see, that no matter how much effort they put into the game, they will not be rewarded.

No wonder why AoT fails to maintain a healthy high-ranked 1v1 Supremacy population!

 

 

What could have been interesting plays and innovative breakthroughs were all used to be determined by how fast a player could respond to and prioritize each scenario, making for exquisite matchups and interesting replays. Now? Everything is automated, the same games at the top level.

 

 

 

 

 

But, if Managers/Developers were to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, high-hunt maps (of The Titans expansion pack), and Atlanteans, then those middle-class players would see that the more effort they put into the game, the more improvement they will gain.

 

Because, they can improve their APM; they can try different strategies (risk taking); they can play, knowing they wouldn't be denied by some cheap GP or 2TC machine automation; they can create unique Build Orders; THEY CAN LEARN HOW TO USE HOTKEYS.

 

 

Free the players!

Let the players work for their matches!

Let their micro be the determining factor of their winning or losing!

It will create for genuine and unique games, not cookie-cutter "choose your counter-civ, God Power chess, and press AQ 2TC auto-pilot outboom" banality!

 

 

Allow "Real-Time" back into "RTS" for AoM.

3.PNG.d3a856c3e8c33dcda56c107b0f6c22d1.PNG

 

 

 

Spoiler

7.thumb.PNG.209d1d0d28b6439c77e50a5cf8827d80.PNG

TheMista interview (2015).

 

2.thumb.PNG.1f0170e540a37803b3787425835986fd.PNG

3.thumb.PNG.6aa4a76c672d908d4abe76c129aa61b6.PNG

TheMista interview (2010).

 

10.2.thumb.png.4bb30dea8ebba3920d77dad2c7e71a51.png

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12.3.thumb.PNG.274a29ea787009dc0c01e511057d9900.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FAQ #2

 

FAQ #2 - Table of Contents

  • "We don't need to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Atlanteans, Titans, or maps - the game is already balanced - haven't you seen the statistics?"
  • "Can't there be a compromise?"
  • "Why should Casuals have to suffer for competitive players' sake?"
  • "Why don't you go back to AoE2 or SC2?"
  • "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"
  • "What if nobody buys this game because of this letter?"
  • "Aren't maps just maps?"
  • "Wasn't the 2002 AoM competitive scene not good?"
  • "What if your suggestions create even more imbalances?"

 

Spoiler

 

 

 "We don't need to remove free GP's, free MU's, 2TC's, AQ, Shooting Docks, Atlanteans, Titans, or maps - the game is already balanced - haven't you seen the statistics?"

 

AoT is balanced™ around AQ.

Remove AQ and see if the winrate per Major God will remain the same.

See if players can retain the same, steady flow of units at all times.

Spoiler

People often forget that player-attention is a "resource"; attention is split via multi-tasking, in order of decisions (whether planned or unplanned)prioritization.

But AQ alleviates prioritization between macro and micro. Therefore, players have more attention (and APM) to spend on executing new tactics and exploring different strategies, because:

  • Units are streamlined.
  • Timings are "standardized".

This is the micro-meta (which is not "micro", not "micro-management", not "macro meta").

Eventually, players will discover the optimal way to play:

  • New maps created to be nearly-symmetrical.
  • People have "fewer" choices to make.
  • Matches have "less" entropy.
  • The game plays by itself.

This is the macro-meta (which is not "macro", not "macro-management", not "macro meta").

The next time you see an AoT video/stream/replay/statistic, remember: The entire game revolves around a single mechanic.

 

 

Please read Section 1.0 regarding AQ.

 

 

 

 

 

"Can't there be a compromise?"

 

Regarding the addition of AQ to any non-ranked matchesit will surely foster a destructive path similar to what AoT had sown.

History will repeat itself.

There will be no "split" community, only the illusion of two, separate populations:

  • One, of automated/inorganic gameplay, the gargantuan of the two, and also serves as a gatekeeper to enslave new players to an automated/"dead"/"same" macro-meta.

 

Other bad ideas:

  • Bad idea: AQ is removed from ranked matches upon reaching a mid-low rating.
    • Explanation:
      • This may backfire as removing the crutch (AQ) may result in a tsunami of match-losses/decision-anxiety for lower-rating players, eventually leading them to quit or complain on pushing the AQ bar higher.
      • This also sets new players up for failure because they have not developed familiarity of controls, like toddlers given strollers instead of the autonomy to fall/stand.
  •  
  • Bad idea: Units created under AQ are produced slower.
    • Explanation:
      • The game will still play by itself, especially in mid-to-late games or Deathmatch (as either have more buildings to manage).
  •  
  • Bad idea: Atlanteans, Chinese, and new civilizations are unlockable upon reaching a higher rating.
    • Explanation:
      • Please read Section 3 regarding new "civilizations" (tech-trees).

 

 

Please read Section FAQ #2's "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" regarding the state of the game.
Please read Section Conclusion regarding "Casuals".
Please read Section 1.0 regarding AQ.

 

 

 

 

 

"Why should Casuals have to suffer for competitive players' sake?"

 

Why is there even a ratings system?

How can 10,000 AoE2 Casuals learn hotkeys, but not AoT's Casuals?  https://steamcharts.com/app/813780  https://steamcharts.com/app/266840

Why should those who practice the game have to suffer for AoT Casuals' sake?

 

 

Please read Section 1.0's AQ section regarding "playerbase".

 

 

 

 

 

"Why don't you go back to AoE2 or SC2?"

 

No.

 

You are the ones turning AoM into:

  •  
  •  
  • Age of Empires 2:
    •  
    • Boomy longplay:
      • Macro-meta:
        • 2TC-meta
        • AQ-meta
    •  
    • Boomer Defense Simulator:
      • Wall-connectors for Docks/Fortresses/Towers/Wonders because of:
        • Free GP's
        • Free MU's
    •  
    • "One tech-tree" balance:
      • "Civilizations" (tech-trees) lose their identities:
        • Voobly: E.g.: Throwing Axemen's Range via Infantry-line uprades.
        • AoMEE: A new unit to each "civilization" (tech-tree) to balance their intended weakness.
  •  
  •  
  • Starcraft 2:
    •  
    • Cheese BO's:
      • Free GP's
      • Free MU's
    •  
    • (")Revealed(") maps:
      • Free MU's.
    •  
    • (")Symmetrical(") maps:
      • Voobly's official fan-mod maps.
      • AoMEE's resource-equity maps.
    •  
    • Gameplay of intensive microing due to a simplified macro:
      • Atlanteans
      • AQ

 

 

Please read Section Conclusion regarding AoE2.
Please read Section FAQ #2's "Aren't maps just maps?" regarding SC2.
Please read Section 1.0 regarding 2TC's and AQ.

 

 

 

 

 

"Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?"

 

The low retention-rate of new players is not because, "AoM is unpopular... because AoM is unpopular".


Middle-class players (non-Casuals, non-Pros) are not stupid. It is no enigma to them, after many hours of online gameplay experience, that the game is not organic:

  • AQ: robs the player of many windows-of-opportunities to exploit their opponent's inattention.
  • Age of Free Insurance™ (Free GP's, Free MU's, Shooting Docks...):
    • Rewards players for simply Advancing, by:
      • Safeguarding the Boomer/Casual by buffering enemy aggression.
      • Fostering a fiesta-mode gameplay, denying meaningful competition by introducing chaotic elements (undeserved/unpaid perks) to "'equal' starts".

 

Consider: What if Microsoft introduced those features into AoE2?

 

Even with the rise of smartphones and Battle Royale games, there were periods of player influxes to AoMEE, clearly showing that RTS games are not obsolete.

 

The population can still grow (so long as automation and Age of Free Insurance™ are removed).

  • AoMEE released on May, 2014
  • TotD released on January, 2016
  • COVID lockdowns: 2020 - 2023
  • AoM Retold announced on October, 2022
  • Occasional Steam sales

https://steamdb.info/app/266840/graphs

https://steamcharts.com/app/266840

 

But due to the increased requirements of:

  • The adherance-to/familiarity-of the "meta" (macro-meta)2TC-meta/AQ-meta
  • Time spent per match: Boomy longplay
  • Maximizing Age of Free Insurance™: Cheese/abuse

Why would most gamers want to play this game?

 

Gameplay-wise, free God Powers and "The Titans'" core-mechanics are the sole reasons for AoM's cult status instead of a recognized brand.

 

 

Please read Section 1.0 regarding AoT.
Please read Section Conclusion regarding the state of the game.
Please read Section Conclusion regarding Greg Street's (Ensemble Studios Designer) explanation on "Speed".

 

 

 

 

 

"What if nobody buys this game because of this letter?"

 

The reason behind AoT's heavy sentiments is because its current (leftover) population is consisted of those spoiled by its mechanics (Casuals) and those who enjoy their status-quo (boomy (2TC-AQ macro-meta) mains).

 

 

Please read Section 3.2 regarding monetary models.
Please read Section Conclusion regarding "Casuals".
Please read Section FAQ #2's "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" regarding the state of the game.

 

 

 

 

 

"Aren't maps just maps?"

 

Ensemble Studios didn't intend for AoM to be some muscle-memory game with the same map, like StarCraft, a game of perfectionism. That was why they created randomized maps so players could scout the map and use everything to their advantage. May the person with the best reflexes and intuition win! Random Maps and Relics (and no AQ) mix things up.

But, no, you have players who just want to do their usual 2TC. They already know the point of the game (macro-meta (AQ-meta/2TC-meta)). If someone else has an extra Gold Mine, they cry. They don't want to scout. They don't want to use the terrain. Everything must be standardized™ like chess pieces on the board. Because they don't want to put in the extra effort to Classical fight (that is, to create a new BO). Right. Because 2TC's and free MU's basically rewards the Boomer - Age of Free Insurance™, not Age of Mythology!

Do you know who always complains about map balance™? Boomy players. Because all they do is the same thing over and over again: 2TC, AQ, raid, lame, 2TC, AQ, RAID, LAME!

Pro recs are a joke for scouting: they always miss 1 or 2 Gold Mines or hunt. That's why they always complain about map balance™. Because they never put in the effort to scout thoroughly.

Resolving map screws is not the same thing as standardizing™ maps.

Having nearly-symmetrical maps actually favor boomy civilizations!

 

 

Please read Section 1.0's AQ section regarding "maps".

 

 

 

 

 

"Wasn't the 2002 AoM competitive scene not good?"

 

They only had less than a year to flesh out their macro-meta before the wrecking ball that was AoT came in.


They simply didn't have enough time or AQ.


623913596_suppeaom.thumb.PNG.2331a076d15aec140914ca17588f53fb.PNGSuppe/Love_soup interview (2009).

 

 

 

 

 

FAQ #3

 

Spoiler

 

 

FAQ #3 - Table of Contents

  • "What is this 'Age of Free Insurance™'?"
  • What is this '™'?"

 

 

 

"What is this 'Age of Free Insurance™'?"

 

See: Terms and Conditions may apply.

 

Although "Age of Mythology" does not have "Empires" in its title, it retained a core concept from the series, namely, the Advancing system:

  • A considerable amount of resources was spent to Advance
  • During Advancing, the researching Town Center could not produce Villagers for a minute

 

In other words, what could have been used to build one's military/economy and securing map control for 60 seconds was instead spent as a long-term investment for better: Techs, MU's, GP's, Population (2TC's), and economy (2TC Villagers). 

As you progress through the Ages, can your Empire withstand the "barbarians" during and after that time of vulnerability?

 

Instead, upon Advancing, you get:

  • Free God Powers
  • Free Myth Units
  • 2TC's (Classical Age)
  • Titan Gates (Mythic Age)

 

In other words, the game rewards you for your efforts of simply DOING NOTHING OTHER THAN BOOMING/ADVANCING.

 

Terms and Conditions:

Spoiler

Free for boomy civilizations and AoFI™ abusers, at the expense of: Norse players, creative risk takers, and aggressive playstyles.

 

In AoFI™:

  • Your APM does not matter.
  • Your Build Orders do not matter.
  • The Norse playstyle Ensemble Studios envisioned for AoM does not matter.
  • The "meta" (micro-meta) is an illusion.
  • There is only one way to play the game.

1000738127_boomraid.PNG.3a4f7b30c2d02575a26fc9b7c0f634eb.PNG

TheMista Interview (2015).

 

 

Please read Section FAQ #2's "Nobody plays this game? Nobody cares?" regarding the state of the game.
Please read Section Conclusion regarding the state of the game.
Please read Section 1.0 regarding AoT.

 

 

 

"What is this '™'?"

 

The majority of balancing™ only address the surface-level symptoms, not the original problem (Age of Free Insurance™).

The forum-admins are composed of those excelled in the "meta" (macro-meta), established by Age of Free Insurance™. (Can the reader guess what their Mains are)?

 

7.1.jpg.94f1ec543b9429233c9b94c4aad7902d.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

"What if your suggestions create even more imbalances?"

 

Then balance™ the unit/GP/micro-meta imbalances.

Just get rid of the automation (2TC's, AQ) and Age of Free Insurance™ (free GP's, free MU's) which lock the macro-meta in 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy matches.

 

 

Please read Section 1.0 regarding AoT.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources

Spoiler

 

Maps of Mythology (2002)
https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/27/maps-of-mythology

INTERVIEW WITH SOUP (2009)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?s=428ee2657f29a7d44998c1336814849f&portal=AOM&showtopic=128850

Interview with mG_TheMista (2010)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?s=428ee2657f29a7d44998c1336814849f&portal=AOM&showtopic=186108

 

CENSORED SINCE JANUARY 9, 2023

Spoiler

 

AQ Removal Yes/No (2013)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=226742

Registration required to view since January 9, 2023. (Topic created by: TheMista).

 

6.jpg.c1e5d541bcaad98dbfa42d9e0334a4e8.jpg

 

 

Why is AOE2 more popular than AOM? (2014)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Titans/showtopic=231170

Interview with TheMista (2015)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/Age-Of-Mythology/showtopic=235604

Time for new balance patch? (2022)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/RTS-Sanctuary/showtopic=250020

Should I retire? (2022)
https://www.rts-sanctuary.com/RTS-Sanctuary/showtopic=250066

 

AOE FORMUS THREAD LOCKED SINCE OCTOBER 17, 2023

Spoiler

 

An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM (2023)

https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/an-open-letter-to-aom-managers-developers-on-how-to-save-competitive-aom

The latest replies were deleted.

 

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 January 13, 2023

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by IAmNotIronMaiden
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Reserved 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MISCELLANEOUS

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 "How did the expansion packs harm Norse in 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy?"

 

Norse is the most difficult civilization to play in 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy because of:

  • Build Order complexity
  • 2-Villager start
  • Acute map dependency
  • Hack-only
  • Odd unit composition

 

Each of the 3 Norse Major Gods have different perks, meaning their BO's are not interchangeable amongst each other as with the Greeks or Egyptians!

Try consistently creating sub-4:30 Norse BO's on-the-go; unlike the Greeks or Egyptians, Norse cannot change Dwarves/Villagers/Ox-Carts/Ulfsarks midway and still achieve the same timing.

And although every high-ranked player can make a sub-4:30 Norse BO, the question is: is it effective - can that BO produce units from 3 military buildings on AQ, non-stop, after the infantry built them immediately reaching Classical Age?

Norse BO's are harder to standardize because of Random Maps.hunt.thumb.PNG.1c47d8f41ceabd0127f695f76f4d7c6e.PNG

TheMista interview (2015).

That is why BO crafting is critical to any competitive Norse Mains.

 

On low hunt maps, Norse is at a severe disadvantage because their hunting bonuses are neglible!

 

On Water Maps:

  • Norse has 2 Villagers to begin with, unlike the Greeks (3 Villagers) or Egyptians (2 Villagers and a Pharaoh). Dwarves do not cut wood faster than Gatherers!
  • Their Arrow Ships:
    • Have the slowest speed, meaning they receive extra damage when retreating.
    • Their (meager) extra damage is "useless" if their lumber output cannot keep up with the Greeks or Egyptians.

 

That is why, for all of their disadvantages, complexities, and customizability, if the player could win as Norse, they deserved it. Because they had the skill (APM, micro, intuition) and/or preparation (excellent BO's).

 

Spoiler

 

Regarding Shooting Docks* for Norse, Norse already struggles to compete on water with their 2-Villager starts. Greeks have 3 Villagers and Egyptians have 2 Villagers Empowered by a Pharaoh. Norse has dwarves, but they do not cut wood any faster than a Gatherer!

 

Regarding free MU's* for Norse:

  • Against a fast MU, a Norse rusher has to remove 2 Hersirs from combat to defend both hunt and gold. Especially in the early game, every hersir counts towards their rushing!
  • Against a slow or ranged MU, Norse has to trade/sacrifice a few Hersirs or else lose their free MU and human military to it over time!
  • That is why Norse rushing is not (macro-meta) "meta"!

 

Regarding Titans* for Norse, Norse is already at a severe disadvantage because their Villagers cannot build it. They have to either Ragnarok or REap SIGNificant losses. In other words, with or without Ragnarok, Norse's infantry will still have to build or counter it, thereby removing their offensive ability and map control! Also, Norse Titans are disadvantaged because of their attack animation.

 

Regarding high-hunt maps (of The Titans expansion pack) for Norse, it creates the macro-meta illusion that Norse is overpowered because of their hunting bonus. However, on Vanilla maps, the truth (less hunt) clearly reveals itself.

 

Regarding Atlanteans for Norse:

  • Regarding civilization roles, Atlanteans "replaced" Norse in the competitive scene:
    • By becoming the new early-game aggressor ("stolen valor")
    • With cost-effective, odd units (like Norse's non-standard-AoE units)
    • With simpler early-game macro (more time to micro) with:
      • ~2.3-Villager Citzens (e.g.: how Norse queue Dwarves to Gold)
      • No drop-off buildings/units ("Ox Carts")

1.03pantheon2.thumb.PNG.6003aaa167c85c8da98b5497cb650d59.PNG

TheMista interview (2015).

  • Regarding Stymphalian Birds, there was a reason why Ensemble Studios had offensive flying MU's only available in Mythic Age, not Heroic Age. And since Norse has no archers (an intended weakness Ensemble Studios gave to Norse as part of their civilization identity), the Axe of Muspell was simply a reaction Tech hastily given for Norse to research... in Heroic Age?! In Classical Age, Massed Throwing Axemen are needed to defeat one Bird, which are easy pickings to Turmas as they deal bonus damage to anti-infantry!

 

Regarding 2TC's* for Norse, although Norse can albeit boom, Ensemble Studios designed them to aggress instead, as evident by:

  • Buildings are weaker (made of makeshift materials, temporary lodgings quickly assembled on enemy ground)
  • Infantry can only build (forward building; offensive playstyle)
    • Wonders cannot be built by Villagers (offensive playstyle)
    • Villagers cannot build Walls (offensive playstyle; under-defended base)
  • Heroes cannot be queued in Town Centers (offensive playstyle, under-defended base)
  • Hack-only ("unsophisticated barbarians")
  • Limited ranged attacks until Mythic Age ("unsophisticated barbarians")
  • Odd unit composition ("unsophisticated barbarians")

 

Regarding AQ* for Norse, it gives the defender even more time to micro against a Norse rush; AQ's benefits for a rusher are negligible compared to a defender's - Age of Free Insurance™!

 

* Assuming both players were of equal skill...

 

 

It is no surprise why most AoT players do not Main Norse.

 

 

 

 "What is wrong with this picture?"

 

 

1.PNG.bb7087beae9f2a2c45e38d1b0d4be62a.PNG

(White goes first).

What is wrong with this picture?

 

In a 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy match, assuming both players were of equal skill (one move per turn):

  • Thor loses to Heimdall HeimdallIcon.png.4e17898c06cbdc0ec6523ca49a48f259.png, regardless of which Classical Age god he chooses to Advance under.
  • If the Loki player Advances under Forsetti ForsetiIcon.png.55f35ed019251391fc40a4ddb414084b.png, Thor Hersirs still lose to Loki Hersirs.
  • If the Thor player manages to Advance under Skadi SkadiIcon.png.9c3734f71d10a5d7119f9619795a502a.png, a wise Loki player would have already Advanced under Bragi BragiIcon.png.f89566bd35090c2e1f84b25b72d23fbc.png and sat on the Thor player's second gold mine with several units to bait Frost.

 

But, even if the Thor player is slightly more skilled (black goes first), his choices are limited against a Loki player who has a good BO and "strategy" (semi-Heroic).

 

 

So, how can we turn the game from this:

2.png.d13f42824f5a0d5d0e753666a971d427.png

 

       to this?          3.PNG.d3a856c3e8c33dcda56c107b0f6c22d1.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RESPONSES

  

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said:

I don't know why you think a Loki Heimdall is an auto win

 

(Last edited: August 4, 2023)

 

Assuming both players were of equal skill, Loki wins against Thor on the open battlefield because of free™ Mu spawns (Age of Free Insurance™), leading to....

On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said:

Thor can go Forseti - Hersir + TA + trolls and Loki can't get in

 

So why then would the Loki player want to invade?

  • The Loki player gets map control: hunt and Gold, and Spy.
  • The Loki player can also Advance to Bragi quicker.

 

Also, an experienced Loki player wouldn't have forward built nor Advanced with 14 villagers or less.
Instead, he would have been pumping military from 3 buildings (immediately built once reaching Classical Age) on AQ non-stop.

Which leads back to the beginning of this section.

 

Finally, the Loki player will steamroll with infinite hunt, 2TC's, Einherjars, and Undermine/FW.

 

 

 

 

On 4/1/2023 at 2:52 PM, simtom said:

even Freja can work because Loki will need to keep a Hersir back to defend vs Valk raid

 

Against the free™ Valkyrie, an experienced Loki player would have already kept two Hersirs behind (one for hunt, one for Gold).

Against multiple Valkyries, the experienced Loki player rejoices as the Thor player cannibalized their Advance food (herdables) for mere scouting (useless raiding).

Against 1 Valkyrie + 1 Ulfsark + 1 TA raids, the Loki player can always respond.

 

 

 


In Norse wars, Loki has all the lockdown perks: His philosophy is to react accordingly to the Spied unit, gain map control, then overwhelm with free™ MU's (and Einherjars).

 

"Show me rec".
"1v1 me".

Did you read anything?

 

Consider - assuming both players were of equal skill:

  • Who would win on the open battlefield?
  • Why should players (especially Norse) fight under TC/tower fire?
  • Do Heimdall players have to Advance with 14 villagers?
  • Do Heimdall players have to forward build?
  • Do Heimdall players have to attack early?
  • Why should Heimdall players attack at half population?
  • Are Hersirs the only choice for Loki?

 

No wonder Norse players have such a poor reputation (and playerbase).

 

 

 

 

Edited by IAmNotIronMaiden
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  • IAmNotIronMaiden changed the title to An Open Letter to AoM Managers/Developers on How to Save Competitive AoM

Well, as well written and formatted as this is, I don't know if they would need to change the game so drastically to achieve what you are seemingly after. They could first of all try changing some of the stat values of units/buildings, and see if that can encourage a more aggressive playstyle. Likewise they could simply add a 'Vanilla' gamemode alongside Deathmatch/Lightning. 

Edited by Leinadarcher
Me wording bad
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Quote

In a 1v1 high-ranked Supremacy match, assuming both players are of equal skill (one move per turn):

  • Thor loses to Heimdall HeimdallIcon.png.67484efceb8a9770a20ed2658ad17179.png, regardless of which Classical Age god he chooses to Advance under.
  • If the Loki player Advances under Forsetti ForsetiIcon.png.e4cb719e651c02ed950e4e7ad7a6ab6e.png, Thor Hersirs still lose to Loki Hersirs.
  • If the Thor player manages to Advance under Skadi SkadiIcon.png.f309b2030fa7011ffe7600e4af6ebdcc.png, a wise Loki player would have already Advanced under Bragi BragiIcon.png.9328b4d2f5f89c045cf1dcfec7512576.png and sat on the Thor player's second gold mine with several units to bait Frost.

But even if the Thor player is slightly more skilled (black goes first), his choices are limited against a Loki player who has a good BO and "strategy" (Semi Heroic).

 

That's just not true.  I think of Thor vs Loki like this, if Thor survives to ragnarok he wins.  So Loki has to kill or do a lot of damage and, when both players know that, a good Thor will make it very difficult for Loki.  I don't know why you think a Loki Heimdall is an auto win; Thor can go Forseti - Hersir + TA + trolls and Loki can't get in; you can also do an early ulf flood, remember Thor has stronger eco and fighting close to your base is an advantage.. even Freja can work because Loki will need to keep a Hersir back to defend vs Valk raid.

 

In general rushing Thor with Loki is not that viable.  I wouldn't do it in a serious game because it's too risky.  But playing Forseti is tricky too because if you're not far ahead by heroic age you'll lose to Ragnarok.

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